The 9/11 Conspiracy Facts

Lets Move On to the next premise...

I think mjd has shown that...

1. 9/11 served as a new PH in terms of the speed needed to increase the defense budgets and the money spent on R and D. At this point, that does not prove complicity.

2. This is based upon the historical record including the defense budget spending increases by President Bush and the increase spending on the R and D aspect.

*Begun to transform our Nation’s defenses and increased spending by 26 percent, the largest increase in the Defense budget since the Reagan Administration;
*Increased research and development funding by 56 percent
Source: Office of Management and Budget

I think we can all understand the "speed" as being extremely important to the PNAC plan for transformation. Who knows when the next liberal administration might come along and issue forth defense budget cutbacks again. Get the next bj girl boys, we got a Democrat rollin' in!

Not all of the plan's suggestions have come to fruition, such as huge project cutbacks, etc.
However, this does not impact at all the new Pearl Harbor segment from Ch. 5 of the plan.

I think its time to move on to the next premise.
 
I think mjd has shown that...

1. 9/11 served as a new PH in terms of the speed needed to increase the defense budgets and the money spent on R and D. At this point, that does not prove complicity.

2. This is based upon the historical record including the defense budget spending increases by President Bush and the increase spending on the R and D aspect.
:dl:
*Begun to transform our Nation’s defenses and increased spending by 26 percent, the largest increase in the Defense budget since the Reagan Administration;
*Increased research and development funding by 56 percent
Source: Office of Management and Budget

I think we can all understand the "speed" as being extremely important to the PNAC plan for transformation. Who knows when the next liberal administration might come along and issue forth defense budget cutbacks again. Get the next bj girl boys, we got a Democrat rollin' in!

Not all of the plan's suggestions have come to fruition, such as huge project cutbacks, etc.
However, this does not impact at all the new Pearl Harbor segment from Ch. 5 of the plan.

I think its time to move on to the next premise.

Do you package that stuff raw and sell it to garden shops, or do you compost it first?
 
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He thinks if you agree, that you are moving a step closer to conversion...treat it like one of those "Choose your Adventure" novels that came out in the 1980's...once you have agreed to choice (A) he will then move on to Proposition (B) and when you agree to that, to (C) until, in his mind, he has brought you to the only conclusion possible...9/11 was an inside job.

Good Luck

TAM:)

I liked those books.
 
Here is my problem with your arguments so far mjd:

1 - PNAC
2 - ?
3 - 9/11
 
For pity's sake, man! You have "significant evidence" that the US government conspired to kill 3000 of its own citizens and you're *waiting* to tell us?!?!?

Get on with it! This is important!

Exactly; The JREF Grand Jury is waiting.....mjd, guess what we're waiting for?

Here is one hint; Evidence
Here is another;Tangible Evidence
And another; Convincing Evidence
In case you're not sure what's required here;
One more hint; Concrete Evidence

Let’s not forget our aim- is this sufficient evidence to warrant a new independent investigation?

The Jury is waiting for the proof.
 
So mjd, you want everyone to agree with your interpretation of the documents you're talking about? Sorry, won't happen. You can not know that faster is better. When I was 19 I wanted to have my own family in the future but I planned for it to take a while absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event like a broken rubber.

:dl:
 
mjd1982 is presumably off composing his next post, which he thinks will undoubtedly have us all screaming "inside job!" once we read it.

More likely, it will be his list of "explicit warnings" and by "explicit", he means extremely vague... :rolleyes:
 
So mjd, you want everyone to agree with your interpretation of the documents you're talking about? Sorry, won't happen. You can not know that faster is better. When I was 19 I wanted to have my own family in the future but I planned for it to take a while absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event like a broken rubber.
That is due to extraneous events, which i have dealt with. Please read the posts before responding to them.
 
You're quite welcome.

I have to say that I fail to understand why having other people comfirm that you believe what you believe was/is so important to you in this discussion. One might think that you could achieve the same comfirmation using a Ouija board, or perhaps simply by reading your own posts and deciding whether you agree with them.

However, if it is in fact helpful to you I'm happy to oblige, and perhaps it will help others in this thread to understand your thought processes as well.

Respectfully,
Myriad
I was being facetious. Sorry if you misunderstood.
 
Ok, sorry for the hiatus.

Let’s move on, onto the foreknowledge section.

It should be stated, that were a new PH deemed propitious to policy, this would give us a very interesting framework within which to proceed re: 911.

Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent on defense, intel and diplomacy every year, in significant part to prevent the occurrence of a new PH, or some such event. This is why the chances of such an event occurring, absent government connivance, are so slim- it is indeed a once in a lifetime event. Thus, the chances of all the enormous systematic hindrances and hurdles to such an occurrence being overcome merely by external agents, when the government itself feels that such an occurrence is propitious, get reduced significantly, given that a government can fairly easily connive to allow such an event to occur. Moreover, the chances that such an occurrence should happen in the most timely manner possible for said government, just before the QDR, the importance of which timing had been implied strongly in the same policy document, and leaving the administration 3 or 7 years to pursue the implementation and entrenchment of such policies, given also that , to repeat, they had deemed such an event propitious… the chances of the event having occurred without government connivance are very very small indeed. This then gives us a framework for proceed, and weighing up evidence, and should colour all our future judgements on the matter.

It may be instructive to ask oneself, what one would expect to happen, in an instance where a new PH had been deemed propitious to policy, in the run up to the occurrence of such an event, were such to be allowed to happen.

A very plausible sequence would be as follows:
1. Non partisan members of government who would stand in the way of a new PH happening get demoted/silenced/sidelined. This is not given, subsequently, adequate explanation.
2. There is an unprecedented litany of warnings in the intel community, none of which get acted upon. This leaves certain agents furious, threatening to quit, stating that something huge will happen unless people start taking things seriously. Important organisation heads will have back channels to the GOP, and have been brought into line, thus facilitating the neglect. No one will be fired, or even demoted. This is, subsequently, explained away by the fact that there were communication problems between agencies, fluff about how everything looks 20-20 in hindsight, and how they get lots of warnings.
3. It will, inevitably, surface that important and revelatory information was passed all the way up to the Principals, the VP, and even POTUS, but zero action was taken, nothing , nowhere. This will be left uncomfortably silent
4. And finally, there will maybe be the odd slip that cannot be accounted for, such as an early, smaller attack from Al Qaeda, the people most likely to be the bogeymen for the new PH, which should warrant a response, but nothing gets done; and, if you are really unlikely, an offer from the Taliban to hand over Osama Bin Laden to the US’s clients in Saudi Arabia, to be handed to the US; this just gets hushed up, and everyone pretends it didn’t happen.

I think this is a pretty plausible sequence of events for what might happen in the event of government connivance in 9/11. And of course, it is precisely what did happen.

1.As anyone who has read Richard Clarke’s book, “Against All Enemies” will be aware, the efforts taken by the Clinton administration to stop terrorism, and in particular Al Qaeda terrorism, were considerable. One of the main reflections of this occurs in Clinton’s creation of the post of National Coordinator for Security, Infrastructure Protection, and Counter-terrorism, the “Counter Terrorism Czar” that was given to Clarke. Clarke was very aware of the threat of AQ, and within 5 days of taking office, he had sent a document to Condi Rice, entitled, “Strategy for eliminating AQ”. Very clear in its import- these guys are mean, and they want to kill us. Take them very seriously The response? Very simple- demotion. The next day he was told that he would no longer be dealing with Principals, but rather with Deputies. This was a pretty easy method of turning the volume down/off from any non partisan members of government who might try and alert senior members too doggedly of the threat of a catastrophic terrorist attack.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A20349-2004Mar24.html
In his own words, this slowed things down “by months.” Actions on this document for combating this threat were not even discussed by Principals until September 4th; 9 months later.
It should also be noted that Bush and his team had been made aware of the urgency of getting AQ as early as November. Fighting terror was, indeed, something which Bush had campaigned on in 2000. The war on Islamic terrorism had been stated explicitly, in light of the USS Cole attack, by Sandy Berger on January 17th 2001. So the threat of Islamic terror was something Bush et al had been well briefed on before taking office, it was an “urgent” issue, a “deadly threat”. So when Clarke hands a document to the same people, outlining strategies for countering this deadly thread, and gets demoted for his efforts, this should bring the probable motivations of the administration quite sharply into relief.


Do note that if a new PH was going to occur, AQ/OBL are clearly the obvious bogeymen.

2. Regarding forewarnings, these were considerable. Many of these details can be founded, with links to articles/date and edition of articles, here:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/...11_timeline&before_9/11=warnings&startpos=100

Here are some brief excerpts:

- May- July 2001: Over a two-month period, the NSA reports that “at least 33 communications indicating a possible, imminent terrorist attack.”
- May 16-17, 2001: US Warned Bin Laden Supporters inside US and Planning an Attack
- May 29, 2001: Clarke (ex US Head of Counter Terrorism) Asks for More to Be Done to Stop Expected Al-Qaeda Attacks
- May 30, 2001: FBI Is Warned of Major Al-Qaeda Operation in the US Involving Hijackings, Explosives, and/or New York City
- June 2001: Germans Warn of Plan to Use Aircraft as Missiles on US and Israeli Symbols
- June 2001: US Intelligence Warns of Spectacular Attacks by al-Qaeda Associates
- June-July 2001: Terrorist Threat Reports Surge, Frustration with White House Grows
- Summer 2001: Threat Alerts Increase to Record High
- Summer 2001: Israel Warns US of ‘Big Attack’
- Summer 2001: Al-Qaeda Plot Described as Upcoming ‘Hiroshima’ on US Soil
- June 21, 2001: Senior Al-Qaeda Officials Say Important Surprises Coming Soon
- June 22, 2001: CIA Warns of Imminent Al-Qaeda Suicide Attack
- June 23, 2001: White House Warned ‘Bin Laden Attacks May Be Imminent’
- June 25, 2001: Clarke Tells Rice That Pattern of Warnings Indicates an Upcoming Attack
- June 28, 2001: Tenet (ex CIA Director) Warns of Imminent Al-Qaeda Attack
- June 28, 2001: Clarke Warns Rice That Threat Level Has Reached a Peak
- Late Summer 2001: Jordan Warns US That Aircraft Will Be Used in Major Attack Inside the US
- July 2001: India Warns US of Possible Terror Attacks
- July 1, 2001: Senators Warn of Al-Qaeda Attack Within Three Months
- July 5, 2001: Ashcroft (ex US Attorney General) Is Warned of Imminent, Multiple Attacks from Al-Qaeda
- July 6, 2001: CIA Warns Upcoming Al-Qaeda Attack Will Be ‘Spectacular’ and Different
- July 6, 2001: Clarke Tells Rice to Warn Agencies to Prepare for 3 to 5 Simultaneous Attacks; No Apparent Response
- July 10, 2001: FBI Agent Sends Memo Warning That Inordinate Number of Muslim Extremists Are Learning to Fly in Arizona
- July 10, 2001: CIA Director Gives Urgent Warning to White House of Imminent, Multiple, Simultaneous Al-Qaeda Attacks, Possibly Within US
- July 16, 2001: British Spy Agencies Warn Al-Qaeda Is in The Final Stages of Attack in the West
- Late July 2001: Taliban Foreign Minister Tries to Warn US and UN of Huge Attack Inside the US
- Late July 2001: Argentina Relays Warning to the US
- Late July 2001: Egypt Warns CIA of 20 Al-Qaeda Operatives in US; Four Training to Fly; CIA Is Not Interested
- Late July 2001: CIA Director Believes Warnings Could Not ‘Get Any Worse’
- August 2001: Russia Warns US of Suicide Pilots
- Early August 2001: Government Informant Warns Congressmen of Plan to Attack the WTC
- Early August 2001: Britain Warns US Again; Specifies Multiple Airplane Hijackings
- August 6, 2001: Bush Briefing Titled ‘Bin Laden Determined to Strike in US’
- August 8-15, 2001: Israel Reportedly Warns of Major Assault on the US
- August 15, 2001: CIA Counterterrorism Head: We Are Going to Be Struck Soon
- August 23-27, 2001: Minnesota FBI Agents ‘Absolutely Convinced’ Moussaoui Plans to Hijack Plane; They Are Undermined by FBI Headquarters
- August 23, 2001: Mossad Reportedly Gives CIA List of Terrorist Living in US; at Least Four 9/11 Hijackers Named
- August 30, 2001-September 4, 2001: Egypt Warns al-Qaeda Is in Advanced Stages of Planning Significant Attack on US
- September 4, 2001: Mossad Gives Another Warning of Major, Imminent Attack
- September 10, 2001: NSA Intercepts: ‘The Match Begins Tomorrow’ and ‘Tomorrow Is Zero Hour’
- September 10, 2001: US Intercepts: ‘Watch the News’ and ‘Tomorrow Will Be a Great Day for Us’
- September 10, 2001: US Generals Warned Not to Fly on Morning of 9/11

Now, the counter here will predictably be, well, there were problems, intel agencies get loads of warnings every day, this probably represents a minute fragment. This is only true with an ignorance of the facts. These state that George Tenet, the DCI, had described the intel warnings, regarding an upcoming AQ attack on the US/US interests, as “unprecedented”. This is the same man who was in charge over the millennium, when the terror threat (foiled, incidentally) was possibly as high as it had ever been up to that point. According to Dick Armitage, his “hair was on fire”. Another FBI source claimed “The warnings could not have been any worse”. So clearly, any arguments that this level of warning was something ordinary could not be further from the truth. (For all sources, see link above)

The second rebuttal is that the warnings were not specific enough. Well, although this will be debated, what is telling, is that nothing was done. Not one thing. No increased protection of vulnerabilities, border security etc, not even one effort toward that. As outlined above, such unprecedented neglect, fudged by incomplete explanations, is precisely what would be expected in such a scenario.

PS- Regarding “back channels”, this was stated in Clarke’s book, that Louis Freeh, the then director of the FBI had back channels to certain parts of the GOP.

3. What is less easy to explain away is the inaction of POTUS and those around him. As has been made clear in the 911 Comm report, Bush was warned 40 times in the ~30 weeks running up to 9/11, just at PDB’s by Tenet (the man with his hair on fire at the unprecedented threat), of the impending threat of an AQ attack. What was done? Nothing. And there were very specific pieces of information given to Bush. To quote 911 Commissioner Bob Kerrey:

Bob Kerrey said:
y the way, there’s a credible case that the president’s own negligence prior to 9/11 at least in part contributed to the disaster in the first place.… n the summer of 2001, the government ignored repeated warnings by the CIA, ignored, and didn’t do anything to harden our border security, didn’t do anything to harden airport country, didn’t do anything to engage local law enforcement, didn’t do anything to round up INS and consular offices and say we have to shut this down, and didn’t warn the American people. The famous presidential daily briefing on August 6, we say in the report that the briefing officers believed that there was a considerable sense of urgency and it was current. So there was a case to be made that wasn’t made.… The president says, if I had only known that 19 Islamic men would come into the United States of America and on the morning of 11 September hijack four American aircraft, fly two into the World Trade Center, one into the Pentagon, and one into an unknown Pennsylvania that crashed in Shanksville, I would have moved heaven and earth. That’s what he said. Mr. President, you don’t need to know that. This is an Islamic Jihadist movement that has been organized since the early 1990s, declared war on the United States twice, in ‘96 and ‘98. You knew they were in the United States. You were warned by the CIA. You knew in July they were inside the United States. You were told again by briefing officers in August that it was a dire threat. And what did you do? Nothing, so far as we could see on the 9/11 Commission.”


This sums up matters quite well.

In addition, we have the statement from George Tenet, who told the CNN that he had told Rice that AQ were planning multiple, simultaneous attacks on the US.

KING: Did you warn her or threat -- did you warn her that a threat was imminent?

TENET: You're talking in the run-up to 9...

KING: Yes.

TENET: ... to 9/11?

Well, you know, we provided, I think...

KING: You knew there was a threat imminent.

TENET: Well, sure. There was -- we had a meeting on July 10th and we -- we, you know, I jumped in the car and went down to see the national security adviser. We believed that there were -- the threat was imminent, there would be multiple spectacular...

KING: What did she do?

TENET: Well, she got it. She understand the nature of the threat. She turned around, she had the deputies convene. Other things happened around that time. We had asked for -- we had asked for specific authorities to help us get into Afghanistan. We had asked for those in the spring. This all came a little bit slowly.

But, Larry, everybody now wants to look at was one person responsible?

Look, look, policymakers and law enforcement intelligence, all of us in this owed the families of 9/11 better than they got. Human beings make mistakes. There's no silver bullet in any of this.

So having the game of who did what and what happened, look, this was the most painful day of our lives.

So did we provide strategic warning?

Yes.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...30/lkl.01.html

Of course, in the light of the fact that the CT movement presses for an investigation of possible US complicity in 9/11, the above, as well as the 40 ignored, direct warnings gives a strong case for such.

4. Of course there was the attack on the Cole, which was not acted upon at all; no War on Terror from that; just a promise from Bush to “strengthen missile defenses” to protect US troops. What is very interesting, incriminating, important, and unknown to most on either side of the fence, is the fact that OBL was offered to Bush, by the Taliban, in return for dropping of sanctions in February 2001. This was not only in the midst of all these warnings, but also after the guilt for the Cole bombing had been pinned on AQ. Not to mention the bombings of the embassies and the WTC in 1993. So, one of the biggest terrorists in the world who has killed many of your countrymen, and declared holy war against your country, declaring every man, woman and children legitmate targets, is offered to you on a plate, what do you do? Nothing of course. Criminal.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zK-te3Y0m5A

The need for investigating US government complicity, in the light of all this, is clearly a dire one.
 
Hundreds of billions of dollars are spent on defense, intel and diplomacy every year, in significant part to prevent the occurrence of a new PH, or some such event. This is why the chances of such an event occurring, absent government connivance, are so slim- it is indeed a once in a lifetime event.


First, we don't have a large enough sample to draw such a conclusion. Second, how many Pearl Harbors has the US military/intelligence establishment actually ever prevented? Third, how often has a country or other group actually had the motive, means, and opportunity to carry out such an attack? I submit that until about 15 years ago, this conjunction of motive, means, and opportunity have only ever happened happened once.

Thus, the chances of all the enormous systematic hindrances and hurdles to such an occurrence being overcome merely by external agents, when the government itself feels that such an occurrence is propitious, get reduced significantly, given that a government can fairly easily connive to allow such an event to occur.


How do you know the government could "fairly easily connive" in this case? How many people would have to have been subverted? What if some of them said "no?"

Moreover, the chances that such an occurrence should happen in the most timely manner possible for said government, just before the QDR, the importance of which timing had been implied strongly in the same policy document, and leaving the administration 3 or 7 years to pursue the implementation and entrenchment of such policies, given also that , to repeat, they had deemed such an event propitious…


2. Regarding forewarnings, these were considerable. . . .


Are you advocating LIHOP or MIHOP? If LIHOP, how could "they" affect the timing of the attack to make it right before the QDR?? If MIHOP, why would there have been any actionable warnings?? Please explain this apparent contradiction in your "theory."
 
You said they wrote their plan to attack America into "Rebuilding America's Defenses.

No I didn't, I stated that they clearly implied its propitiousness for policy.
Why do you lie so blatantly? You must perceive some benefit from doing so. What is it?

mjd1982 said:
It is stating that we need a new PH- a mass terror attack on US soil, ingrained on the public’s consciousness- in order to catalyse hegemonic aims. Not that we need to prevent a new PH ever happening- this is in fact the opposite of what is said.

Gravy said:
Is it plausible that these "conspirators" would publicly announce a plan to kill thousands of Americans?

mjd1982 said:
This is pretty silly. The idea that "they wouldnt say it, so they didnt say it". is pretty worthless in discussion- it is there in black and white.

Gravy said:
By gosh, you're absolutely right: in 2000 prominent neocons published their plan to kill thousands of Americans in a Pearl Harbor-like attack! I don't know how I could have missed it!

mjd1982 said:
Oh, sorry, hahaha, yep there it is.
So why do you continue to lie, mjd? How does lying benefit you?


mjd1982 said:
That they are expening lots of money in Iraq is meaningless if they are still proceeding with the other elements of the plan. This is precisely what is happening, as has been outlined to you,

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84473&page=3

but you have chosen not to address. This is unsurprising. Never mind, at least it is plain for all to see.
The PNAC specifically called for the cancellation of the JSF and other programs, because these would be roadblocks to the transformation they envisioned. What happened, mjd? How did they allow these roadblocks to be put in their way?

Called you names... how precious.

Please show me where you have offered an argument about the PNAC doc that is not merely one from incredulity, or one that has not been addressed in my dismantling of your lc guide.

Let's start with my first post to you, when I asked if you had anything new to add, then requested that you review the previous discussions about this subject: http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2681924#post2681924

Then we have these posts, which you somehow missed:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2683098#post2683098
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2685661#post2685661
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2685704#post2685704
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2686385#post2686385
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2688167#post2688167
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2691027#post2691027

Please explain why you continue to lie. I'm very curious about what makes a person do that publicly.
 
He continues to lie because it continues to get him Troll Snacks (TM).

TAM:)
 
MJD, any chance you could just sum it up for everybody? It is all good and well posting excruciatingly long posts and repeating the same stuff but seriously are you trying to bore everybody to death or have you actually got something tangible to say?
 
I was being facetious. Sorry if you misunderstood.

I did indeed misunderstand, but there's no need for you to apologize.

When I say "please," "thank you," and "you're welcome," I mean it. I tend to just assume that others do too. Assuming the best of people until they demonstrate otherwise is just one of my little quirks. Really, I had reason to expect you to measure up in any way. I should be the one to apologize, for having far too high expectations.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
4. Of course there was the attack on the Cole, which was not acted upon at all; no War on Terror from that; just a promise from Bush to “strengthen missile defenses” to protect US troops. What is very interesting, incriminating, important, and unknown to most on either side of the fence, is the fact that OBL was offered to Bush, by the Taliban, in return for dropping of sanctions in February 2001. This was not only in the midst of all these warnings, but also after the guilt for the Cole bombing had been pinned on AQ. Not to mention the bombings of the embassies and the WTC in 1993. So, one of the biggest terrorists in the world who has killed many of your countrymen, and declared holy war against your country, declaring every man, woman and children legitmate targets, is offered to you on a plate, what do you do? Nothing of course. Criminal.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=zK-te3Y0m5A


After many pages of drivel, we come to the bombshell: Osama was offered to Bush by the Taliban! Radical leftist Alexander Cockburn floated this myth in a column. But how credible is it? It must be considered somewhat curious that the legion of professional Bush-bashers is silent on the subject.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_20010209/ai_n10670252
 
Why do you lie so blatantly? You must perceive some benefit from doing so. What is it?

So why do you continue to lie, mjd? How does lying benefit you?

I'm pretty sure I've told you before not to accuse people of things that clearly go over your head, elementary though they are.

There is a very clear difference between stating the propitiousness to policy of a new PH, which comes via a very, very basic inference, and writing their plan for attacking America into the doc.

I wont accuse you of lying; I am well aware that you do not understand such simple concepts, don't worry, it's ok.

The PNAC specifically called for the cancellation of the JSF and other programs, because these would be roadblocks to the transformation they envisioned. What happened, mjd? How did they allow these roadblocks to be put in their way?

They are perceived as roadblocks; i.e they are hindrances. Yet, as I have told you too many times now, which you are evidently unwilling to address (this time, I will presume cowardice), that is one fraction of the plan; the overwhelming majority of it is being implemented right now.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=84473&page=3

You put a lot of work into this guide it would appear- 16 pages later and you have not even dared to step up to the plate to defend it, Why not? Again, I presume the above.

And finally, as again I have told you, the individual elements of the implementation matter little, since they are reflective of execution, rather than design.. Since we are questioning PNAC's design, questions regarding their execution have less value.

This should not be hard to understand.


I was given 4 such threads by Hokulele. I went through them all.
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2683435#post2683435

And given that your piece is one of the most representative pieces on the topic, I dealt with that, as above, point by point. You have avoided this, other than through pedantry, and incredulity

Gravy said:
Wait: I addressed your point. You said the neocons published a plan to murder thousands of Americans, and I treated that statement as the 100% batpoo-insane, howler monkeyism that it is.

Give credit where credit is due, please

Please explain why someone so keen to state the virtues of rational thought and logic in debate should resort to such childish nonsense, so many times on a point that he seemingly has no hope of defending?

Please explain why you continue to lie. I'm very curious about what makes a person do that publicly.

Oh dear... Someone's getting a little desperate methinks...
 
After many pages of drivel, we come to the bombshell: Osama was offered to Bush by the Taliban! Radical leftist Alexander Cockburn floated this myth in a column. But how credible is it? It must be considered somewhat curious that the legion of professional Bush-bashers is silent on the subject.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4196/is_20010209/ai_n10670252

Oh boy, ROFL...

This is getting quite tragically desperate. So....
1. You ignore almost the entire post
2. You reject the OBL claim as a "myth", despite being documented openly on video at a WH press conference
3. You base this claim on... well, nothing really, just I would assume the fact that it goes against your belief in the fact that there was no US connivance
4. Ok, then you flail at a reason, that being that not many people talk about it.

I mean, what the hell is this? Have you people no ability whatsoever to look at a situation with a modicum of honesty? Why should this be so hard?

If you want to argue this point, then either prove that it is a faked video, or show that Bush did chase after OBL, but failed despite heroic efforts.

And then there is the rest of the post. LMAO.
 
Okay, a sincere thank you to all who did respond. To those who unforunately didnt, your cowardice will be evident for the rest of the thread.

You don't own this thread, Mjd. The cowardice is on the part of those who refuse to hear those who DO speak out. Like putting people you disagree with on ignore.

No I didn't, I stated that they clearly implied its propitiousness for policy.

Again, what about the mentioned fact that they actually claim the opposite ?

Significant evidence for this will be presented in just a tick.

I don't believe you. If you HAD evidence, you would've presented it before.

It has taken so long because no one wanted to address my points.

We adressed all your points. You just don't like the answers.

Their penchant for conspiracy, treason etc, is evidenced when they are pursuiing this goal, so I think that is a moot point.

No, it's not. You don't understand how this works at all. You think that past history is enough for a conviction. It is not so.

This is not speculation about their state of mind, it is inherent in the very name of the organisation. They want to ensure that the 21st century is the American Century. Hence why they would want to ensure that such measures which will ensure this, get put in place as expediently as is possible, thus allowing them to achieve their goal.

Your "thus" doesn't necessarily follow, and is as such speculation.
 

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