Terrorist Organization Assaults Amish Farmers Over Milk Production

[kookbreaker]

Theft would be if someone broke into Apple's corporate office and stole their design documents.

Ingenuity would be taking Apple's phone and coming up with your own design based on their technology.

But that is not what you advocated. You said you should be allowed to sell fake versions of a product. You get to skip the R&D expense and go straight to the moneymaking while potentially damaging their reputation. That is theft.

 

[Foolmewunz]

Theft would be if someone broke into Apple's corporate office and stole their design documents.

Ingenuity would be taking Apple's phone and coming up with your own design based on their technology.

Well, there's going to be some Free Market discussion of that coming up.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/18/apple-sues-samsung-over-for-copying-the-iphone-and-ipad/

 

[psionl0]

Copywrite and intellectual property laws are nothing more than State privileged monopolies.

What happened to the concept that everyone has the right to enjoy the fruits of their labours?
Does the right to own property not include intellectual property?
Is the owner of intellectual property not entitled to set the conditions by which others may use this property?
If the user of the property does not abide by the conditions set by the owner, does the owner not have a claim for damages?

 

[kookbreaker]

Because you hope to get first to market advantage, because you enjoy making things, because you think the world will be better off with this product, because you personally want the product, or to give the product to others.

Humans are creators. We are builders. It's what we do.

I'm not exactly disagreeing with you. Just as copyrights can encourage invention and research, it can also stifle it.

I understand what you are saying, and I do agree to an extent. That being said, do you agree with michaelsuede's belief that he can just make exact copies of something you spent time and money on, as well as using the logo/company reputation you spent ages developing a reputation for?

 

[michaelsuede]

Wait, what? Are you saying that none of the Smartphone manufacturers did any patenting during development?

No one did, because Apple actually did hold the patent on it.

However, the other manufacturers simply ignored the patent and produced their own phones anyways. They got a head start because when Apple filed their patent, they had to fully disclose their technology for everyone in the world to see. (patents destroy trade secrets)

So in this particular case, we can demonstrate that the end result of Apple getting a monopoly privilege on the production of touch screen phones would have been incalculable harm to consumers.

Apple knew the other manufactures would do this, but they went ahead and produced the phone anyways.

In this case we can say with total certainty that:

1. Apple did not and does not need patent protections to come up with profitable business ideas and new technologies.

2. If other producers of phones were prohibited from copying Apple, consumers would be deprived of an incredible amount of new and competitive phones.

There is no logical reason why Apple should have a monopoly on touch screen phones.

None.

 

[kookbreaker]

You can't steal ideas, they are intangible.

In your example, you were not stealing ideas. In your Rolex example you were stealing a design, possibly the mechanism, and certainly the logo.

Theft.

 

[michaelsuede]

In your example, you were not stealing ideas. In your Rolex example you were stealing a design, possibly the mechanism, and certainly the logo.

Theft.

Copying is not stealing.

 

[kookbreaker]

Copying is not stealing.

Once you sell it, it is.

 

[michaelsuede]

Once you sell it, it is.

Not if I produced it.

 

[Ausmerican]

So what side of the road do you drive on?

You think he's old enough to drive?

 

[michaelsuede]

You think he's old enough to drive?

Says the man with a baby in his profile picture.

 

[kookbreaker]

Not if I produced it.

Nope. Still theft. Make your own version of a watch, make your own version of a Smartphone and sell it all you want. Otherwise you are stealing.

 

[Little 10 Toes]

Please provide proof that there are people that "seek to take money from me by force and use it to wage warfare against Amish people".

Any reason why you can't answer this request michaelsuede?

 

[MG1962]

You think he's old enough to drive?

Just curious if he drives on any side he wants at any speed he wants - or is this 'down with the man' routine optional

 

[michaelsuede]

Nope. Still theft. Make your own version of a watch, make your own version of a Smartphone and sell it all you want. Otherwise you are stealing.

Are you a democrat?

Because you do realize you are arguing in favor of giving corporations State privileged monopolies right?

Do you believe in the Sherman Anti-Trust act?

If you do, then you hold contradictory opinions.

How's that cognitive dissonance treating you these days?

 

[kookbreaker]

Are you a democrat?

Because you do realize you are arguing in favor of giving corporations State privileged monopolies right?

Not in the least. I am saying you cannot just make an exact copy of something and sell it for profit. Make your own version of a watch. Make your own kind of Smartphone. Be my guest! The fact that you can make such things is the very antithesis of a monopoly. But when you outright steal a design or logo your aren't "fighting monopolies", you're just a thief.

Do you believe in the Sherman Anti-Trust act?

If you do, then you hold contradictory opinions.

How's that cognitive dissonance treating you these days?

Do you often try to rape strawmen like that? Never mind. I am going to bed now.

 

[michaelsuede]

Not in the least. I am saying you cannot just make an exact copy of something and sell it for profit. Make your own version of a watch. Make your own kind of Smartphone. Be my guest! The fact that you can make such things is the very antithesis of a monopoly. But when you outright steal a design or logo your aren't "fighting monopolies", you're just a thief.



Do you often try to rape strawmen like that? Never mind. I am going to bed now.

Don't be mad that I'm against State privileged monopolies while you worship them like the Sun god.

 

[The_Animus]

I understand what you are saying, and I do agree to an extent. That being said, do you agree with michaelsuede's belief that he can just make exact copies of something you spent time and money on, as well as using the logo/company reputation you spent ages developing a reputation for?

Sometimes it can be hard to pin down exactly what someone is saying, especially when the exact topic tends to drift around.

I believe what he is saying is that if Apple makes an iPhone, I can examine it all I want, and if I can figure out how to make that product for cheaper, or improve upon it, then I should be allowed to do so under a different name. Selling my animusPhone as though it were an iPhone is fraud.

Not allowing someone to make a cheaper, or better version would in effect stifle invention as well as lower overall value creation.

 

[michaelsuede]

correct.

Although I still think you should be able to sell it as an iPhone as long as it is clear that YOU produced it and not Apple.

Calling your phone an iPhone is fine as long as it is sold in a way that does not suggest to the potential buyer that Apple produced it.

The buyer must know that it is not a real iPhone. If the seller tries to sell it as if it were a real iPhone, then they are committing fraud.

Lying about a product is fraud. Cosmetically replicating a product is not fraud as long as the person buying it knows its a knock off.

 

[Kid Eager]

Don't be mad that I'm against State privileged monopolies while you worship them like the Sun god.

You appear to be conflating concepts of patent, copyright, and Egyptian religious practices. This in itself is fine, but is somewhat irrelevant to the argument you appear to be trying to make.

Here's some light reading on copyright. If you're going to rant about Teh Evill Statez you may as well get it right:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copyright