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Terri Schiavo

Denise said:
USA you said

I want the eeg evidence that she has no cerebral activity.
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You want me to get the f***ing EEG for you? Give me a f***ing break. :rolleyes:

And if you'll read, for comprehension this time, what I posted above, it says:

The court said a neurologist who had reviewed a CAT scan of Mrs. Schiavo's brain and an EEG has testified that most, if not all, of Mrs. Schiavo'scerebral cortex -- the portion of her brain that allows for human cognition and memory -- is either "totally destroyed or damaged beyond repair."
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The EEG, shows that her cerebral cotex is damaged or destroyed. That means no cerebral activity. Get it?

She's an eggplant.
She should be allowed to pass from this life without "living" like Davros.
 
I don't believe in an afterlife, so life is very precious to me. Ms. Schiavo is obviously capable of smiling. Unless a doctor can say that she has no neural activity in her cerebral cortex at all, not just "damaged beyond repair", I think that the ability to smile means that she is at least capable of distinquishing a pleasurable experience from an unpleasant one.

It's too bad that there's no video of the time she was starving to death. It might be interesting to see if she was smiling much.

I'd want to stay alive as long as possible. After I'm dead, I'll cease to exist, no afterlife or reincarnation, so if I'm in a coma or diagnosed as PVS even if there's only a .000000000001% chance I might recover, it's better than the alternative.

I think religion makes it easier to kill people.

UnrepentantSinner, your "eggplant" ect. comments put you at the same level as Lord Kenneth at his worst. (sorry LK). You could have made your point in a more neutral fashion.
 
Cheese n crackers the lady is nothing morethan a venus flytrap! Shes been a drain on society for 13 yrs now. Who do you think is paying for her care, all of us! Pull the plug already. You can call me heartless but Im not the one who wants to prolong this ladys so-called life just to make MYSELF feel better.

If I was calling the shots Id have her injected wh somthing to put her out of her misery. We have the right idea when it come to the terminal family pets but not when it comes to family.

Lets take a poll. WHo hear would want to live as a veggie vs being put down?
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


You want me to get the f***ing EEG for you? Give me a f***ing break. :rolleyes:

And if you'll read, for comprehension this time, what I posted above, it says:



The EEG, shows that her cerebral cotex is damaged or destroyed. That means no cerebral activity. Get it?

She's an eggplant.
She should be allowed to pass from this life without "living" like Davros.
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I want a citation showing what you asserted. You said her EEG was flatline. I'd like to see the testimony for that. I understand that most of her cerebral cortex is gone, but no one has said it is all gone. Some doctors have said that she has some function.

An eggplant?:rolleyes:
 
Tmy said:
Cheese n crackers the lady is nothing morethan a venus flytrap! Shes been a drain on society for 13 yrs now. Who do you think is paying for her care, all of us! Pull the plug already. You can call me heartless but Im not the one who wants to prolong this ladys so-called life just to make MYSELF feel better.

If I was calling the shots Id have her injected wh somthing to put her out of her misery. We have the right idea when it come to the terminal family pets but not when it comes to family.

Lets take a poll. WHo hear would want to live as a veggie vs being put down?
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This isn't about what we would want, it's about what she would want.
 
Denise said:
This isn't about what we would want, it's about what she would want.
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Is it? Or is it more about what her parents want?

As far as the EEG goes, I'm sorry I don't have her files in front of me, but I'm sure, as you say, some doctors (probably Catholic ones hired by the parents) will insist she's fully cognizant. :rolleyes:
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


Is it? Or is it more about what her parents want?

As far as the EEG goes, I'm sorry I don't have her files in front of me, but I'm sure, as you say, some doctors (probably Catholic ones hired by the parents) will insist she's fully cognizant. :rolleyes:
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I think you are confusing brain death with a vegitative state. Her brain is not dead.
 
I would be far more comfortable with her parents- who have been with Terri her entire life, make decisions about her than her husband. A man who began dating others shortly after he won the medical lawsuit- the one who said he would care for Theresa until she died. The husband who hangs visitation over the Schindler's heads as a power trip.
 
If she truly is in a PVS that she will never recover from, do you think she feels angry that her wishes have not been honored?

I also have to wonder how many people are locked inside a body that betrays them and change their mind about the whole "unplug me" thing when the time comes, but it is too late and they can no longer communicate.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


Is it? Or is it more about what her parents want?

As far as the EEG goes, I'm sorry I don't have her files in front of me, but I'm sure, as you say, some doctors (probably Catholic ones hired by the parents) will insist she's fully cognizant. :rolleyes:
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If it is what her parents want, what harm is in that?

I would want this for my child and I am an atheist. Maybe your distaste for religion is clouding your judgement.

I don't think religion is the driving passion for their wanting their daughter to live.
 
tamiO said:
If she truly is in a PVS that she will never recover from, do you think she feels angry that her wishes have not been honored?

I also have to wonder how many people are locked inside a body that betrays them and change their mind about the whole "unplug me" thing when the time comes, but it is too late and they can no longer communicate.
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If she is in PVS, she would have no way of knowing that she is even alive. There is a phenomenon when people are locked in, it is different than PVS to be sure. Look at people with ALS. Think Stephen Hawking.
 
Denise said:
Another interesting case. http://abcnews.go.com/sections/living/DailyNews/miraclewoman991229.html
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Thank you Denise. I haven't been able to do any research, but I knew that there were stories out there like this. This may have been the woman that I was recalling. From the URL,

miraclewoman991229.html

it looks as if the story was from Dec. 12th, 1999.

One of my pet peeves in journalism is not dating articles. This one only had Dec. 29 in the dateline.
 
When I heard she was going to die from dehydration and starvation and that people actually thought it was a painless way to die, I was outraged.

I knew a man whose wife tried to kill him through starvation and dehydration.

He was already in a weakened state from emphysema and he fell in the bathroom. She left him there and he laid there for 5 days.

When she thought he was dead, she picked him up and put him in his bed and called her daughter and told her to come over. When she got there and was told he was dead, she believed her mother. He looked dead, but on closer inspection she discovered her Daddy was still alive. She had almost turned to leave the room and go into the living room and let it sink in that her Daddy was dead.

He was able to recover and go on to live 5 more years. He said he had tried with all of his might and will to move his eyes and let her know he was still alive.

He told me it was the most horrifying experience. To feel yourself dry up like that. He said it hurt real bad and that's all he would say. His tongue was like a piece of wood. As it healed, big chunks of it would peel away.
 
To argue this stop feeling emotions and lay off the empathy. It takes a monster to decide this.
 
To be honest, I am shocked that so many fellow forum members have no opinion on this. Yea or nay. Please speak up.
 
tamiO said:
If it is what her parents want, what harm is in that?

I would want this for my child and I am an atheist. Maybe your distaste for religion is clouding your judgement.

I don't think religion is the driving passion for their wanting their daughter to live.
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Because parents (and other loved ones) sometimes don't think rationally when it comes to a child (or other loved ones) and the possibility of death. Sometimes they don't want to do what's right because they can't let go.

And I don't have disdain for religion, I have disdain for certain tenets and policies of various religions. One that I have disdain for is the Catholic Church's absolute sanctity of life policy. I find a religionious policy that would have thousands of nuns carry and bear children rather than destroy unused fertilized eggs from IVF treatments to be worthy of disdain.

I think the passion is equal parts not wanting to let go, and fear that they're sinning by letting her die a dignified (or at least as dignified as she can get now) death.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


Because parents (and other loved ones) sometimes don't think rationally when it comes to a child (or other loved ones) and the possibility of death. Sometimes they don't want to do what's right because they can't let go.

And I don't have disdain for religion, I have disdain for certain tenets and policies of various religions. One that I have disdain for is the Catholic Church's absolute sanctity of life policy. I find a religionious policy that would have thousands of nuns carry and bear children rather than destroy unused fertilized eggs from IVF treatments to be worthy of disdain.

I think the passion is equal parts not wanting to let go, and fear that they're sinning by letting her die a dignified (or at least as dignified as she can get now) death.
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What does dignified mean? And if she is not aware how does it matter?
 
Denise said:
To be honest, I am shocked that so many fellow forum members have no opinion on this. Yea or nay. Please speak up.
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First, an opinion on PVS in general. In college I took an interest in medical ethics, and had several courses- my specialization in one course was PVS and euthanasia. I will not repost my lengthy papers, especially since I can't find it, and will probably now disagree with my thought process, but I recall arguing that in cases when

  • a patient had a living will, clearly expressing her wishes not be kept alive in case of PVS
  • doctors unanimously and unequivocly declared PVS
  • there was no hope of recovery, medical procedure, etc
  • patient was in such a state for some state of time (a few months)
  • there was no overwhelming reason to contest the living will (guardians protesting, changed her mind, etc)
  • then the patient should be euthanised gently, as removal of N&H is extrmely cruel and takes a long time and achieves the same result.
I remember arguing about it quite voiceferously. People said I was making doctors into killers- whereas I said they already are killers, except they make the death slower and harder for the family and loved ones. Anyway, that was my stance in general, but I reconsidered my position, as I believe there are too many buttons pushed with word "euthanasia" and too many dangers with its practice.

In this case, it seems to me from what I read it is not likely this woman will ever come out of the state she is in. I do not feel comfortable with invokation of religion, involvement of the state, and the animosity and mudslinging between the family members which it makes it very hard to know who to believe. However, given that this woman's death is entirely irreversible, that the husband moved on, as was perfectly right for him to do, that I do not think she had a living will, that her parents obviously love her and seem to have volunteered to pay for her care (and if they have not, I am certain there will be plenty of donations), it seems to me the compassionate, if perhaps not technically legal thing to do is let this one go. He can go on with his life, and let her family take care of her, can't he? Is there a downside to him? I mean I know he has the right as a guardian, but the people fighting for her obviously love her, and care for her, and will care for her for as long as they can. Technically, I think he is in the right, but it seems to me he should move on.

And yet another reminder for everyone to have living wills.
 
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