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Terri Schiavo

As usual, Cal Thomas was written on this case using his stellar logic:
The woman has been unable to vote, though her parents want to preserve her life and her husband wants to end it. That's a 2-1 majority, so if we're talking democracy, the majority favors letting her live.
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Nevermind that the husband is the legal guardian.
 
Maybe I've missed this part, but I have a question that I hope someone can answer.

Since Terry Schiavo has been like this for 13 years, why didn't the parents fight this hard to get legal guardianship of her before--or at least to insist legally that she get the kind of rehabilitation therapy that they now claim will help her?

I mean, 13 years have apparently gone by without them doing this, and yet, now....???? :confused:
 
Clancie said:
Maybe I've missed this part, but I have a question that I hope someone can answer.

Since Terry Schiavo has been like this for 13 years, why didn't the parents fight this hard to get legal guardianship of her before--or at least to insist legally that she get the kind of rehabilitation therapy that they now claim will help her?

I mean, 13 years have apparently gone by without them doing this, and yet, now....???? :confused:
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They have! Have you been to their website?
 
peptoabysmal said:
Imagine for a minute that the tube re-insertion was ordered by Howard Dean. Would you have just as strong an objection?

I haven't been able to find anywhere that there were any witnesses or legal documents to support Terry's husband's contention that it was Terry's wish to die under these circumstances. I am starting to side with Terry's parents on this issue. What is the harm in letting Terry live a bit longer, other than her hubby won't get his check as soon?
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Why do the knee jerks always have to inject politics into this? This clearly is a right to die/religious issue. Well, that an parents that don't want their geranium to die...
 
tamiO said:
If she is truly in a PVS and she is not interacting consciously with anyone but merely reacting like a newborn baby would, then I would expect that she would have reactions to being in pain.
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She shows no cerebral activity on an EEG. Even a baby shows cerebral activity on an EEG. For all intents an purposes, she's no more cognative than broccoli.
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


She shows no cerebral activity on an EEG. Even a baby shows cerebral activity on an EEG. For all intents an purposes, she's no more cognative than broccoli.
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Can I see your source for this?
 
UnrepentantSinner said:


Why do the knee jerks always have to inject politics into this? This clearly is a right to die/religious issue. Well, that an parents that don't want their geranium to die...
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That's real sensitive of you.:rolleyes:
 
Tony:
I would guess that most people would not want to live in such a state. So shoudlnt the default be to kill her unless there was evidence that shed want to live as a veg.
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When in doubt, kill? That sounds very scary. That most people would want to die in her situation is a huge assumption. I don't know at what point I would want death for myself. I guess I'd better figure it out and tell someone.

Until I saw the videos I thought this was a pretty easy call, not that killing someone is ever easy. I understand that the videos aren't necessarily proof of awareness, but this definitely changes the way I view the term "vegetable". The fact that she even moved at all in the vids was a shock to me, and probably to a lot of others. The videos are probably very effective to the average person. My instant reaction was "What...they wanna kill this living - though maybe severely retarded - woman?" But when the shock wore off a little...well I hope I never have to make such a decision. This is so sad.

I don't think the husband is as bad as some people have made him out to be - I may be wrong. Sounds like everyone was forced into a terrible no-win situation. He sounds more rational than the womans family.

My good friend recently had a head injury, went into a "coma" for a few days. The paramedics, the doctors, the specialists all said he would probably die...surely he would have serious physical problems for life if he woke up. But a year later, and after a VERY fast recovery, he's ready to snowboard again (which is how he was injured, the damn fool). I don't envy anyone involved in this woman's situation.
 
Schplurg, out of curiosity, what would you do if you were her husband? I know you have said that you wouldn't want to make that decision, but just a hypothetical.
 
Denise,

You and reprise have had a really interesting debate in this thread. I have to admit that your point of view is so alien to me that I -especially- appreciate the passion and research you've put into arguing it.

I'm curious if you were actually convinced that she was really in a persistent vegitative state, if you would feel the way you do, that she should still be kept alive by a machine.

Do you feel that that kind of life would still, in some way, be worthwhile? Or is it simply something that is being endured--perhaps with pain or discomfort--to no particular ends?

I'm not sure if the main objection is that her physical condition may not be as hopeless as portrayed, or if your main objection that, without a document stating her wishes, no one has the right to make a decision for her?

(And, if its the latter, then don't you think we -are- making the decision when we intervene and prevent a natural death process from taking place?)

I admit that I am so biased on this--both in personally not ever wanting to live like that, and in preferring to trust my husband to make the decision for me if the time came--that I appreciate your posts that really force a look at the other side, difficult as I admit that it is for me to grasp....
 
Clancie said:
Denise,

You and reprise have had a really interesting debate in this thread. I have to admit that your point of view is so alien to me that I -especially- appreciate the passion and research you've put into arguing it.

I'm curious if you were actually convinced that she was really in a persistent vegitative state, if you would feel the way you do, that she should still be kept alive by a machine.
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I haven't really researched all that much, just what's available on the web. I cringe at being on the side of the same people such as Operation Rescue. I don't think she should be kept alive on a machine. But, I don't consider a feeding tube a machine. She breathes on her own. Some doctors believe that she is not in a PVS, that she has some awareness.

Do you feel that that kind of life would still, in some way, be worthwhile? Or is it simply something that is being endured--perhaps with pain or discomfort--to no particular ends?
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I don't think we know enough about the brain to know 100% or even 95% or whatever. But I don't know Theresa. Her family does. I believe her parents should be made her guardians as they have loved and cared for her through her entire life. Who am I to tell them that they must let go? If she is truly in a PVS she would not suffer. That's part of the definition of PVS.

I'm not sure if the main objection is that her physical condition may not be as hopeless as portrayed, or if your main objection that, without a document stating her wishes, no one has the right to make a decision for her?
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Both actually, but the my strongest objection is because she didn't have an advanced directive. It's all hearsay and there is nothing in writing.

(And, if its the latter, then don't you think we -are- making the decision when we intervene and prevent a natural death process from taking place?)
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We prevent the "natural death process" from taking place every day with modern medicine.

I admit that I am so biased on this--both in personally not ever wanting to live like that, and in preferring to trust my husband to make the decision for me if the time came--that I appreciate your posts that really force a look at the other side, difficult as it is for me to grasp....
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I'm not so sure I would want to live like that either, but I do know that I would not want to be dehydrated to death. If she is not aware, she certainly doesn't know that she is living in the state she is in. If she is in PVS she cannot, by definition, be suffering. Have you watched the tapes on the site? Just want your opinion on that.

To me bottom line is that we don't know. Terry Wallis woke up after being in a coma for 20 years. Sure, it's not exactly the same as Terri Schiavo, but I think it's always better to err on the side of life. To me, this is it, our one shot. I don't believe in an afterlife.
 
They should set up a TerriCam. I hate searching for updates. Same thing with Roy, that tiger guy who got scratched during his Vegas show.
 
American said:
They should set up a TerriCam. I hate searching for updates. Same thing with Roy, that tiger guy who got scratched during his Vegas show.
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How bout they set up a DenisebeatsupAmericancam?:D
 
Just found this article about Michael Schiavo's attorney. It's quite enlightening and strange. To me of course. http://www.sptimes.com/News/052501/news_pf/Floridian/The_spirit_and_the_la.shtml
Felos' spiritual and professional lives intersected in a public way 12 years ago, in the case of Estelle Browning. The case gained him a reputation as the person to see when you want to let someone die.

Browning, of Dunedin, had written a living will in 1985, saying she did not want to be kept alive by artificial means if she ever became ill. A year later, she had a stroke. But the nursing home refused to stop feeding her because she was not technically brain dead. Her cousin and former roommate, Doris Herbert, asked Felos to take the case.

He wanted to see Browning for himself. She could not speak, but Felos says his spiritual side picked up on something. He says her soul cried out to his soul and asked, "Why am I still here?"
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Can't interfere with a spirtual calling can we?:rolleyes:
 
Denise said:
Can I see your source for this?
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Sure.

"At this time, the Schindlers have not seriously contested the fact that Mrs. Schiavo's brain has suffered major, permanent damage," the court said.

The court said a neurologist who had reviewed a CAT scan of Mrs. Schiavo's brain and an EEG has testified that most, if not all, of Mrs. Schiavo's cerebral cortex -- the portion of her brain that allows for human cognition and memory -- is either "totally destroyed or damaged beyond repair."

"Although it is conceivable that extraordinary treatment might improve some of the motor functions of her brain stem or cerebellum, the Schindlers have presented no medical evidence suggesting that any new treatment ... would allow her to understand her perceptions of sight and sound or to communicate or respond cognitively to those perceptions," the court said.
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She's a head of lettuce, let her wilt in peace...
 
USA you said
She shows no cerebral activity on an EEG. Even a baby shows cerebral activity on an EEG. For all intents an purposes, she's no more cognative than broccoli.
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I want the eeg evidence that she has no cerebral activity.
 
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