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Terri Schiavo

Well Reprise, I am not a lawyer. I did google about the Guardianship court, and Guardianship laws and did not quite grasp it. But, as I understand it, Michael Schiavo is still calling all the shots. The court has upheld that he has guardianship over Terri.

We'll see what happens tomorrow. Don't know if they can get enough votes, although we do know that it will not be vetoed by Jeb.
 
In this case, however, Michael Schiavo has not been allowed to make a decision to disconnect life-support. The Schindlers have not been allowed to make a decision to maintain life-support. Each party in this case, absent their disagreement, might have been a suitable surrogate decision-maker for Theresa. Because Michael Schiavo and the Schindlers could not agree on the proper decision and the inheritance issue created the appearance of conflict, Michael Schiavo, as the guardian of Theresa, invoked the trial court's jurisdiction to allow the trial court to serve as the surrogate decision-maker.
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That's from the case law summary linked to above.

The significance of the court serving as the surrogate decision-maker (ie guardian) rather than as an adjudicator of a dispute between two parties is that when the court is acting as surrogate decision-maker its decision is not limited to a choice between the resolutions proposed by the disputing parties. in that circumstance, the court can make a ruling ordering a resolution which is totally different to that proposed by either of the parties in dispute.

For as long as Michael Schiavo is Terri's legal guardian, legal papers related to the matter of her guardianship must be served on him. Even when the court has acted as Terri's surrogate decision-maker, it has not revoked Michael Shiavo's guardianship.
 
Isn't that what courts always do? Make decisions? There must be some sudulity I'm not getting here. By allowing him to remain her guardian, wasn't that in essence affirming his decisions?
 
I suspect that you'll find that if Michael Schiavo wanted that feeding tube reinserted tomorrow he could not simply order it done even though he is Terri's guardian.

I don't like "knee-jerk" laws, they tend to have unintended consequences. Like you, I have not seen this particular bill, but unless it's worded extremely carefully it has the potential to have unintended consequences which will prevent guardians from withdrawing nutrition and hydration even when no dispute exists. Again, depending on how the legislation is worded, it may actually prolong the dying process in circumstances where death is inevitable.
 
Reprise, I understand what you are saying now. He went to the courts and the courts have decided and they have jurisdiction over that particular decision, although he has jurisdiction over other matters?

I'm thinking along the lines that he has brought this issue to the courts and without him doing so it would not be an issue at all. So, being locked into that view, I had a hard time understanding what you were saying.

Even if I didn't think that Terri has some cognitive function and awareness, I would still abhor her method of death because she is not in a terminal condition. Her organs would not be shutting down if her feeding tube had not been removed, but a person at the end stages of a disease often refuse food and water as their organs shut down. I'd hate to see this legislation force the feeding of some end stage cancer patient etc.
 
He went to the courts and the courts have decided and they have jurisdiction over that particular decision, although he has jurisdiction over other matters?
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Pretty much. If he wanted the court to order the reinsertion of her feeding tube he would have to demonstrate to the court that it is in Terri's best interests AND that Terri would have wanted that. As Terri's guardian, he is bound to carry out HER wishes even when they conflict with his own. As the court has already determined that Terri would have refused life-prolonging procedures, it's highly unlikely that the court would grant an application by Michael Schiavo to reinsert the feeding tube.

This particular case highlights how incredibly complex the issue of guardianship is, even though this case is relatively simple as there are only two parties which have standing before the court - Michael as Terri's guardian and Terri's parents.

If the proposed bill is passed, this particular case might become even more complex if Terri has sustained organ damage in the last week which would require more medical intervention (dialysis, for instance) to keep her alive.

I find the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration an quite repugnant method of bringing about death. I accept - however - that until we address the issue of euthanasia in some meaningful way it is a method we must allow for people to choose for themselves if they wish, and I can't think of a way in which we could allow people to choose it for themselves without allowing guardians to exercise that same choice on their behalf.

Our legal system lags further behind the capability of our medical technology every day and we desperately need to address the ethical issues raised by this reality.
 
Along with the legislative moves, there is an update on the judicial news.
http://www.news4jax.com/news/2567500/detail.html

TAMPA, Fla. -- A watchdog agency for the disabled is pleading with a federal judge to keep a brain-damaged woman alive long enough to investigate a claim that she is being abused by her husband, who got a court order to remove her feeding tube.

The court argument came Monday in a spurt of frantic activity from Tampa to Tallahassee by backers of Bob and Mary Schindler's efforts to keep their daughter, Terri Schiavo, alive and reverse a court order which is allowing their son-in-law to end her life.
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I love reading life-or-death news, followed immediately by, "Oops I ripped my pants!" ala Spongebob. :rolleyes:


I'm betting Jeb will save her.
 
His power to give that order would be limited to cases where a person has left no living will, is in a persistent vegetative state, has had nutrition and hydration tubes removed and where a family member has challenged the removal.
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from here.

I really want to take a look at the actual bill which is being proposed.

My WAG is that the bill won't stand the test of constitutional scutiny as its passage would allow a governor to directly interfere with the carrying out of an order of the judiciary.

At some point, a court has to be able to make a ruling which is final. What bothers me most about these appeals is that their success will not bring finality to the Terri Schiavo case - they will only buy further time in which to find more grounds for legal action to stay the existing Guardianship Court order.
 
I see where the families Monsignior is trying to forcefeed her Communion.

Something about the demand that she receive Communion sounds fishy to me and I don't mean that silly acrostic on people's cars. The issue is her feeding tube and the discontinuation of nutrition and water.

If the Msgr. can shovel enough magic crackers down her gullet and follow that up with some "sacrimental" Ensure, he could keep her alive indefinately. Very sneaky...
 
UnrepentantSinner said:
I see where the families Monsignior is trying to forcefeed her Communion.

Something about the demand that she receive Communion sounds fishy to me and I don't mean that silly acrostic on people's cars. The issue is her feeding tube and the discontinuation of nutrition and water.

If the Msgr. can shovel enough magic crackers down her gullet and follow that up with some "sacrimental" Ensure, he could keep her alive indefinately. Very sneaky...
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He has been her Priest for years. He wanted to give her a tiny portion of the wafer diluted with water. This has been done before with no problems. Besides, if she could take food by mouth then there wouldn't be any issue at all would there be? They are Catholic after all, and they do have a right to practice their religion- no matter how silly it seems.
 
This just in...

Jeb Bush has been granted powers by the Florida legislature to intervene - specifically, to restore Terry's feeding tube because of family contesting the husband's decision.

Jeb steps up to the plate

I'm still not sure about this, but I'm leaning more and more towards the family. And all they're asking for is what, 8-10 weeks to see if she can learn to feed herself? Is that so much after all these years?

Methinks the husband and his itchy plug-pulling hands need to get at some of that donated money.

Having seen only one living will implemented (yeah, I know she doesn't have one, but it played out the same way), I say give the girl a chance. If she's truly vegetative beyond rehabilitation, she won't suffer for the delay. The only one who'll suffer is the husband's bank account.

Go get 'em, Jeb. Hope you're right.
 
I don't know if this bill will be ruled constitutional, but it certainly buys some time. She can swallow, but it's not known if she can swallow food. The vote wasn't even close.
 
And all they're asking for is what, 8-10 weeks to see if she can learn to feed herself?
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Terri Schiavo will never be able to feed herself. Her parents want to see whether or not she is able to take sustenance orally. You can bet your bottom dollar that if she is found not to be able to do so they will find yet another legal basis on which to oppose the withdrawal of nutrition and hydration. It doesn't matter what tests are conducted or how many final rulings are made by appellate courts, these people will oppose any and every measure which would result in the death of their daughter.

The issue isn't simply whether or not Terris Schiavo can swallow, it's whether she can ingest a sufficient quantity of nutrients and fluids to keep her alive and whether or not she can ingest those nutrients and fluids without aspirating them (which would cause pneumonia).
 
It's so disheartening to see parents in such denial about their child that they can't accept her being a empty husk and allowing her to die with some dignity.

I hope my mom never does anything like that for me if I wind up in her state.
 
This case is the stuff of which lawyer's wetdreams are made and looks like remaining so for the foreseeable future - there are certain no other "winners" in this whole, sorry, legal three-ringed circus.
 
So now the Florida legislature has (probably unconstitutionally) authorized Jeb Bush to override the decision of the courts ( :eek: ) and have doctors reinsert the feeding tube.

Thirteen years like this already! And all the doctors who testified in court agreed that she is living in a persistent vegetative state with no chance of recovery. What are all these people thinking? How "precious is life" when it is spent in that kind of condition?

If ever a point was being made about the need for a living will, this is it. Poor woman. (And I feel extremely sorry for her husband, too. I don't see anything wrong with him having a girlfriend--and its great he got some insurance money--medical bills are shocking, even for relatively minimal care. I can only imagine what they're like with machinery...and medicines...and extra personnel added in for so many many years). :(

I realize it must be difficult for the parents to accept their daughter's death, but if I were in that condition like Terri Schiavo, I'd be extremely grateful if my husband had the strength to say, "No more" on my behalf.

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"I hope, I really do hope we've done the right thing," said Senate President Jim King, a Republican. "I keep on thinking 'What if Terri didn't really want this done at all?' May God have mercy on all of us."
 
This is a tough one. It's like a freshman year philosophy question come to life. I don't know who to believe. Me, I'd want out. I don't care if you beat me to death with a hammer.
Maybe the husband is a vile leach. Maybe the family are god nuts. Which is worse?
I'm torn. I'm glad they stuck the tube back in her. Unless she's suffering..... I don't know.
 
I'm glad they stuck the tube back in her.
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Will you still be glad the tube was reinserted if Terri Schiavo is even more dependent on life-maintaining measures than she was before it was removed?
 
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