TERFs crash London Pride

[Cleon]

What is the scientific consensus on men becoming women (i.e. changing their chromosomes, men having babies etc)?

Is there really a medical consensus that says the best way to help people who feel distressed about not fitting into societal gender stereotypes is for them to identify themselves as members of the opposite sex or even to change their bodies to more resemble their opposite sex?

It is extremely worrying that the legal systems (and other systems) in some countries have been corrupted by transgender activist woo.

You're completely unfamiliar with the research in the area, but you're firmly convinced it's all "woo."

Yeah, you go on and do your thing. I'm not getting involved.

 

[Rolfe]

There's research demonstrating that men can actually turn into women?

 

[Porpoise of Life]

Is there really a medical consensus that says the best way to help people who feel distressed about not fitting into societal gender stereotypes is for them to identify themselves as members of the opposite sex or even to change their bodies to more resemble their opposite sex?

Can you give a cite for the highlighted definition?
It's my understanding that it has nothing to do with being uncomfortable with gender roles, but rather with one's own body.

And there appears to be quite a bit of evidence suggesting that allowing people to transition to their target gender helps... https://whatweknow.inequality.corne...y-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/

 

[JihadJane]

You're completely unfamiliar with the research in the area, but you're firmly convinced it's all "woo."

Yeah, you go on and do your thing. I'm not getting involved.

The two main transactivist mantras are "Transwomen are women" and "It's not up for debate."


Your response seems to be an example of the latter.

 

[3point14]

The two main transactivist mantras are "Transwomen are women" and "It's not up for debate."


Your response seems to be an example of the latter.

Well, I'm told that the simple willingness to discuss it demonstrates one to be a transphobic bigot.

 

[Darat]

I really don't think so. I think there are a vanishingly small number of people who would have this attitude. They just make up a greater percentage of twitter (spit) twits than they do of the general public.

Essentially, they are empty vessels making a lot of noise. Most people of non-conventional sexuality are probably extremely embarrassed by them.

And they provide regular "click bait" for those that rely on clicks for revenue so they do get more exposure than you'd expect given their actual numbers but that doesn't make them any more significant. Just more noticiable.

 

[Darat]

The transphobia does not lie in how you answer the question of whether you'd be attracted to a trans person.

The transphobia lies in obsessing about the question in the first place.

This really is no different from the guys (it was always guys) who saw the gay rights movement and started obsessing about what they would do if a guy ever hit on them.

Where has he obsessed about the question?

 

[ponderingturtle]

Well, I'm told that the simple willingness to discuss it demonstrates one to be a transphobic bigot.

And here I get accused of being racist every time I just bring up the debate on if we should consider blacks to be as worthwhile as whites. It is a simple debate but even bringing it up and opening the debate gets you accused of racism.

 

[JihadJane]

Can you give a cite for the highlighted definition?

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/

It's my understanding that it has nothing to do with being uncomfortable with gender roles, but rather with one's own body.

It is the experience of a mismatch between societally defined gender roles (gender is not innate) and one's biological sex.

And there appears to be quite a bit of evidence suggesting that allowing people to transition to their target gender helps... https://whatweknow.inequality.corne...y-about-the-well-being-of-transgender-people/

Transgender activist ideology increasingly claims that biology is irrelevant to the sexual orientation, so that some men can now claim to be lesbians and get very upset if you disagree! They will call you a TERF!

Your article appears to be addressing gender dysphoria, which is a recognised medical condition, which not relevant to many of the claims that transgender identity activists make. I'd need to read all the sources before I could comment on them. The research findings seem to be saying that much more research is needed. However it wouldn't be surprising if conforming to society's gender roles (simply swapping one for another) makes life easier than simply remaining a man (a male person), for example, while exhibiting many stereotypically female behaviours and interests. It's easier, psychologically, to pretend to be a woman instead.


Most of today's transgender identity people do not alter their bodies. This is not surprising as it's a big thing to chop your cock off. It won't grow back. Trans "women" seem to like to hang onto them! Instead they alter their gender roles, behaviours and appearances to fit in with societally defined or alternative gender roles. Even that may change, though, because men who have made no attempt to be or appear as anything other that what men look like and behave like in our society are now claiming that they are women (because they feel like it inside) and therefore demand the right to access women-only spaces. In some areas, their demands are being met.

Please explain how the assertion "transwomen are women" doesn't fit in with this forum's definition of "woo". Maybe start off by defining the word "woman".

 

[JoeMorgue]

So as always we get to:

It's vitally important that I conceptualize a person's gender in the way they want me to even if it makes no difference in how I actually treat the person but it's none of my business and questioning this makes me a transphobe.

Can people stop being so damn picky demanding I think a certain way about things that are none of my business? "None of my business" is a two way street. If it's none of my business, it's also none of my concern.

If I'm treating the person with respect and dignity what the bloody hell does it matter what I internally conceptualize them as? What am I psychically misgendering their soul?

 

[Darat]

I don't think I misread your point at all, actually. You repeatedly have said you "don't care" about every item which has to do with how society treats transgender people. I am simply saying that you are totally free to continue to not care to your heart's content and those of us who do care can continue to do that as well. I am offering reassurance that your not-caring is perfectly fine but if you wish to take that as my invitation for you to do what it is you're already doing... okay. Thanks?





I've watched all her videos and nowhere I can recall has she ever said that it's a white thing; that no POC could ever be fascist. Currently in the US (and in Italy where fascism got its start, along with Germany) it happens that fascism is being put forth by white supremacists/white nationalists/neo-Nazis so, in that sense, in that frame of reference, she's correct. I have no idea if you consider the Chinese or Koreans as 'white' but they have some elements of fascism going too.

But again, nowhere has she said that it's impossible for fascism to exist in Brazil, for example, or Uganda or the Philippines or the New Guineans.

Her videos are pretty out there visually, but I believe she actually puts forth very rational and (essentially) calm facts supporting her POV.

If you still disagree, that's fine. I don't have to die on that hill, I don't care if ContraPoints as a source is bunk (though again I don't think it is).

You are mistaking two ways the "don't care" can be used. 3.4 is using it in the "it shouldn't matter one iota how someone wants to identify themselves as, it should be entirely up to them".

 

[The Norseman]

I think I was overly harsh with my name-calling but I do recall it being explicitly framed as being essentially a "white" thing. I don't believe the context was only "white(r) places" but it's been awhile. I just remember being put really off by it.

Anyway it was a random aside and not really relevant to anything else they say, in hindsight. It's just the first thing that came to mind for me.

No worries.

Yes. You're misreading me. I don't care. As in, as I have said for what is becoming an irritating number of times, it has nothing to do with me, why should it? I have no dog in this fight, it's **** all to do with me what you want to call youreself and i'll ascede to your wishes to be identified any way you like, because I don't care. It doesn't affect me. anyone who thinks it affects them is a loony.


You do know that transphobic people really, really do care. That's why they write transphobic articles and shout about how dangerous a penis in the ladies room is. They care in buckets. I don't care at all.

You're in such a rush to take offense that you're not actually comprehending what the very words you are reading are saying.

I don't care which bathroom you use - use which you like

I don't care which gender you identify - identify as you like

I don't care what clothes you wear, wear what you like

I don't care what you call yourself, call yourself what you like.

I don't care. It's literally none of my damn business.


Yes, you have massively and without actually thinking about what you're reading, almost willfully misunderstood what I'm saying in order to take as much offense as possible. Not only that, rather than ask questions before making utterly horrible accusations, you just went straight to the horrible accusations. When told you'd misunderstood, you didn't stop to think "Hmmm, maybe I've misunderstood this man, perhaps I should seek to clarify before doubling down on making utterly horrible accusations again." You just went ahead and called me a ****. Again. Don't do that. And, when someone says that what you take from their writings isn't what they intend you to take, maybe listen to them, eh?


Do you find this level of unjustified accusation often carries the congregation?

Um... okay.

 

[JihadJane]

I really don't think so. I think there are a vanishingly small number of people who would have this attitude. They just make up a greater percentage of twitter (spit) twits than they do of the general public.

Essentially, they are empty vessels making a lot of noise. Most people of non-conventional sexuality are probably extremely embarrassed by them.

I agree with your second assertion.

The PRIDE protest was about the damage done to women's interests by transgender political activism. It was not making any comment on people with non-conventional sexuality. It was an attempt to defend many of these people's spaces and historical political gains.

In the UK, transgender activists (espousing a narcissistic ideology imported from the USA) are wielding an enormous amount of power over young people in UK universities and in left political realms such as the Labour Party. Many people on the left are terrified to speak out against transgender activist nonsense for fear of being ostracised as bigots, TERFs, transphobic etc. They may also be physically attacked. It's not a good time to be a young lesbian.

 

[The Norseman]

You are mistaking two ways the "don't care" can be used. 3.4 is using it in the "it shouldn't matter one iota how someone wants to identify themselves as, it should be entirely up to them".

Oh, for ****'s sake.

This is ridiculous. Why I am bothering, I don't know.



Here is the sum total of EVERYTHING I'VE SAID IN THIS THREAD sans the two ContraPoints sidenotes:

The anti-trans bigotry here is eerily similar to the kinds of posts made by Skeptic Tank regarding POC and "multiculturalism." They come across the same way — the self-justification and self-victimhood... it's sad in a way.

NOW SPEAKING TO 3POINT14

Every single other instance deals with society in general and not you personally. So... great! You're completely and unashamedly selfish when it comes to transgender issues! Thanks for the input! We'll take it from here, okay? Those of us who do care about how society treats one another, that is.

I don't think I misread your point at all, actually. You repeatedly have said you "don't care" about every item which has to do with how society treats transgender people. I am simply saying that you are totally free to continue to not care to your heart's content and those of us who do care can continue to do that as well. I am offering reassurance that your not-caring is perfectly fine but if you wish to take that as my invitation for you to do what it is you're already doing... okay. Thanks?

The first post I ever made was a general observation having NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with 3point14.

SHOW ME where the **** I did ANY of what I'm being accused of, as in, "almost willfully misunderstood what [3point14 is] saying in order to [give] as much offense as possible. Not only that, rather than ask questions before making utterly horrible accusations, just went straight to the horrible accusations."

I mean, how dare you, 3point14, go off on me like this. Read the *********** highlited and tell me how I possibly could have misread you saying YOU DON'T CARE?

 

[3point14]

And here I get accused of being racist every time I just bring up the debate on if we should consider blacks to be as worthwhile as whites. It is a simple debate but even bringing it up and opening the debate gets you accused of racism.

Would you care to explain the above comment?

If you believe me to be being wildly inappropriate, please show which of my words has led you to this.

Actually quoting me really helps, otherwise I think you're just casting knee-jerk, gross insults. Please don't do that without showing where it's coming from.

 

[The Norseman]

Would you care to explain the above comment?

No, because I didn't make it.

I just quoted everything I've said on the subject as well as everything I've said to you.

 

[The Norseman]

Would you care to explain the above comment?

If you believe me to be being wildly inappropriate, please show which of my words has led you to this.

Actually quoting me really helps, otherwise I think you're just casting knee-jerk, gross insults. Please don't do that without showing where it's coming from.

I am now responding to your edits.

Read post number 136.That is MY name and MY post you quoted and YOUR response is the one I am responding to.

 

[3point14]

NM

 

[Cleon]

The two main transactivist mantras are "Transwomen are women" and "It's not up for debate."

If you simply google the worse "transgender science," you will be greeted with a plethora of news articles and scientific papers that all appear to conclusively show that transpeople aren't just "men who want to become women."

There is a lot. This is a subject that's been studied for over a century.

As much as I would love to give you a nicely tailored list, I've got **** to do.

Your response seems to be an example of the latter.

No, my attitude is that your opinion that is firmly entrenched despite being admittedly uninformed, and therefore I have better things to do than waste my time here.

If you want to take that and claim victory, have at it, hoss.

 

[3point14]

Oh, for ****'s sake.

This is ridiculous. Why I am bothering, I don't know.



Here is the sum total of EVERYTHING I'VE SAID IN THIS THREAD sans the two ContraPoints sidenotes:

NOW SPEAKING TO 3POINT14

​

The first post I ever made was a general observation having NOTHING WHATSOEVER to do with 3point14.

SHOW ME where the **** I did ANY of what I'm being accused of, as in, "almost willfully misunderstood what [3point14 is] saying in order to [give] as much offense as possible. Not only that, rather than ask questions before making utterly horrible accusations, just went straight to the horrible accusations."

I mean, how dare you, 3point14, go off on me like this. Read the *********** highlited and tell me how I possibly could have misread you saying YOU DON'T CARE?

Can you tell me in which way you think I should care?

Can you show me how whatever label someone chooses to use has anything to do with me?

What does this 'caring' look like?


I have to ask - Is English your first language? I mean no offense, but you seem to be able to comprehend what I'm saying.

You also seem to be believing you are able to read my mind. Why would I lie when I tell you that what you take from my writings isn't correct? Why would I do that?


What exactly do you think I' saying when I say "I don't care"?

What do you think I should care about?