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TERFs crash London Pride

cullennz said:
I never realised other people had such indepth conversations about whether to have a shag with someone or not.
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You've been here 11 years. If you haven't worked out that this place is a positive nursery for conversations of this and it's like then you're just not paying attention.
 
isissxn said:
The women on Gender Critical (for example) obviously have a strong anti-trans agenda in general, so I sometimes have trouble taking the details of their more outrageous stories at face-value. A lot of the events are just a little too convenient. To hear these women tell it, every transwoman they know is a sexually pushy, bearded antifeminist who lectures them all day and tries to feel them up all night. Literally none of the transwomen I've ever known were like that. Not one. They were just people.
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I think that encapsulates my experience. None of the transgender people I know - and by some quirk of random fate I do know quite a few - even remotely fit the stereotypes propagated by TERFs and their fellow travellers.
 
Horatius said:
And while not just saying "No", but instead engaging in a complicated debate on the issue, he makes at least one unfounded generalization, and one actually bigoted comment.

Just because you don't consider this to be "heterosexual sex" doesn't mean that no one ever considers it to be so. By making this first point, you basically tell this person that they will never, ever have the type of sex they desire, whether it's with you or anyone else. Not only is this dismissive of the transwoman in question, it's dismissive of all the cismen who aren't you, who might consider having sex with them.

And of course, "I don't identify him as a woman" goes straight to the heart of transphobia
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And there it is. Me not personally being attracted to transwomen = me saying transwomen can't be attractive to anyone, and also means I'm transphobic.
 
3point14 said:
I think you may have wildly misread my point. I thank you for your kind invitation not to contribute any further, but you don't get to make that decision for me, sorry.
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I don't think I misread your point at all, actually. You repeatedly have said you "don't care" about every item which has to do with how society treats transgender people. I am simply saying that you are totally free to continue to not care to your heart's content and those of us who do care can continue to do that as well. I am offering reassurance that your not-caring is perfectly fine but if you wish to take that as my invitation for you to do what it is you're already doing... okay. Thanks?



pharphis said:
That's funny. I recall ContraPoints saying in a video on fascism (about 1 year ago iirc) that it is a 'white' thing. Not exactly a sound-minded individual
(no I have not seen most of her work)
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I've watched all her videos and nowhere I can recall has she ever said that it's a white thing; that no POC could ever be fascist. Currently in the US (and in Italy where fascism got its start, along with Germany) it happens that fascism is being put forth by white supremacists/white nationalists/neo-Nazis so, in that sense, in that frame of reference, she's correct. I have no idea if you consider the Chinese or Koreans as 'white' but they have some elements of fascism going too.

But again, nowhere has she said that it's impossible for fascism to exist in Brazil, for example, or Uganda or the Philippines or the New Guineans.

Her videos are pretty out there visually, but I believe she actually puts forth very rational and (essentially) calm facts supporting her POV.

If you still disagree, that's fine. I don't have to die on that hill, I don't care if ContraPoints as a source is bunk (though again I don't think it is).
 
theprestige said:
And there it is. Me not personally being attracted to transwomen = me saying transwomen can't be attractive to anyone, and also means I'm transphobic.
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Wait, what? That's not what was said.

I've been very active in the LGBTQ communities since high school, yet I'm 'straight'. Very much so. Almost no one has ever given me any **** over 'penis ruins it for me' in real life or online even. The only time my sexual preferences have ever been seriously questioned was by the lesbians and a bi girl back in the 'Gay club' in college. They were sure I had to be 'at least bi', and started questioning me about it. This was ended when one of my gay guy friends got a little upset, saying something to the effect of, 'we don't want people constantly doubting our sexuality, we don't get to turn around and do that to him'. None of the guys ever doubted I wasn't gay or bi. None of the trans men or women did either. The only people to ever give anyone crap about that was in even a minor way were the lesbians (who my sister once called 'the mansplainers of the LGBTQ community').


Let me come at it from another angle to explain it. Let's say someone says they don't find themselves sexually attracted to any white men, and they don't know why. Would you call that racism? I wouldn't. But if they said they weren't attracted to any white men because they aren't real men like everyone else? Hell yes I'd call that racism.

It seems you're categorizing your objection to the hypothetical sex acts in the very broad term of heterosexuality, but that doesn't encompass all aspects of you as a person with sexual preferences. It is only one aspect, and to consider all sexual interactions as only relating to that aspect leaves out a lot, which I'm sure you know on an intellectual level. It simply does not describe everything there.
 
The Norseman said:
I don't think I misread your point at all, actually. You repeatedly have said you "don't care" about every item which has to do with how society treats transgender people. I am simply saying that you are totally free to continue to not care to your heart's content and those of us who do care can continue to do that as well. I am offering reassurance that your not-caring is perfectly fine but if you wish to take that as my invitation for you to do what it is you're already doing... okay. Thanks?





I've watched all her videos and nowhere I can recall has she ever said that it's a white thing; that no POC could ever be fascist. Currently in the US (and in Italy where fascism got its start, along with Germany) it happens that fascism is being put forth by white supremacists/white nationalists/neo-Nazis so, in that sense, in that frame of reference, she's correct. I have no idea if you consider the Chinese or Koreans as 'white' but they have some elements of fascism going too.

But again, nowhere has she said that it's impossible for fascism to exist in Brazil, for example, or Uganda or the Philippines or the New Guineans.

Her videos are pretty out there visually, but I believe she actually puts forth very rational and (essentially) calm facts supporting her POV.

If you still disagree, that's fine. I don't have to die on that hill, I don't care if ContraPoints as a source is bunk (though again I don't think it is).
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I think I was overly harsh with my name-calling but I do recall it being explicitly framed as being essentially a "white" thing. I don't believe the context was only "white(r) places" but it's been awhile. I just remember being put really off by it.

Anyway it was a random aside and not really relevant to anything else they say, in hindsight. It's just the first thing that came to mind for me.
 
theprestige said:
And there it is. Me not personally being attracted to transwomen = me saying transwomen can't be attractive to anyone, and also means I'm transphobic.
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Except you didn't just say you're "not personally ... attracted to transwomen". That wouldn't be a problem.

Go back and look at what you actually said, and try to think of what it sounded like to someone who wasn't you.

You literally said "I don't identify him as a woman", which, as I explained, is the entire problem with people not accepting transfolk in society.

There's ways of saying "I'm not personally attracted to transwomen" without denying their entire experience as transwomen. Again, go back and look at it, and maybe think about it for a bit.
 
Horatius said:
Except you didn't just say you're "not personally ... attracted to transwomen". That wouldn't be a problem.

Go back and look at what you actually said, and try to think of what it sounded like to someone who wasn't you.

You literally said "I don't identify him as a woman", which, as I explained, is the entire problem with people not accepting transfolk in society.
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I accept transfolk in society just fine. I just don't accept transwomen in my butthole.

If being denied access to sex makes them feel like a social outcast, there's a whole incel movement that feels their special pain.
 
theprestige said:
I accept transfolk in society just fine. I just don't accept transwomen in my butthole.
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And if I was to say, "I accept black people in society just fine. I just don't **** *******", I suspect you'd have no problem saying that was a racist thing to say.

Saying that transwomen aren't women is the trans equivalent of that remark.

No one is giving you problems for your preferences. It's how you express those preferences that's the problem. I'm not sure how it is you can keep missing that point.
 
The Norseman said:
I don't think I misread your point at all, actually. You repeatedly have said you "don't care" about every item which has to do with how society treats transgender people.
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Yes. You're misreading me. I don't care. As in, as I have said for what is becoming an irritating number of times, it has nothing to do with me, why should it? I have no dog in this fight, it's **** all to do with me what you want to call youreself and i'll ascede to your wishes to be identified any way you like, because I don't care. It doesn't affect me. anyone who thinks it affects them is a loony.


You do know that transphobic people really, really do care. That's why they write transphobic articles and shout about how dangerous a penis in the ladies room is. They care in buckets. I don't care at all.

You're in such a rush to take offense that you're not actually comprehending what the very words you are reading are saying.

I don't care which bathroom you use - use which you like

I don't care which gender you identify - identify as you like

I don't care what clothes you wear, wear what you like

I don't care what you call yourself, call yourself what you like.

I don't care. It's literally none of my damn business.


Yes, you have massively and without actually thinking about what you're reading, almost willfully misunderstood what I'm saying in order to take as much offense as possible. Not only that, rather than ask questions before making utterly horrible accusations, you just went straight to the horrible accusations. When told you'd misunderstood, you didn't stop to think "Hmmm, maybe I've misunderstood this man, perhaps I should seek to clarify before doubling down on making utterly horrible accusations again." You just went ahead and called me a ****. Again. Don't do that. And, when someone says that what you take from their writings isn't what they intend you to take, maybe listen to them, eh?


Do you find this level of unjustified accusation often carries the congregation?
 
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arthwollipot said:
Forgive me if I missed it, but has the term "TERF" been defined? I'd rather not go to urbandictionary.com while I'm at work...
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TERF (Trans-exclusionary radical feminist) is a slur used by transgender political activists to shut down criticism of their ridiculous ideology. For example, if you deny that transwomen are women (i.e assert they are forever biological men, not women) or assert that there is no such thing as a female penis, you are a TERF.

Claiming that anyone can be a women simply because they feel like (identify as) one, makes the word "woman" meaningless and makes women as a class invisible.

Transactivists often express the desire to kill "TERFs", preferably all of them. Here are some examples:

https://terfisaslur.com/
 
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Horatius, where on earth did you get this bizarre idea that men can literally change into women? It's as bonkers as claiming that shaken-up sugar pills can cure disease or that contrails are the illuminati spraying mind control drugs on us all.
 
theprestige said:
What's the prophylactic barrier that prevents opinions expressed on a college campus from being carried off campus by the students?

Isn't the whole point of college to give young adults a set of ideas and experiences that they will bring forward with them into civil society? Is there any reason to think that ideas that are expressed openly on college campuses aren't held privately by many of the students even after they graduate?

The crazy radfem professor may choose to spew her craziness exclusively from the safe space of her ivory tower, but what of all her students? Do they leave her ideas behind when they graduate? Is that how we think college works? Is that how we think college should work?
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Isn't college to get your qualifications so for example your A levels? Certainly is in the UK.
 
Cleon said:
I've had the privilege of knowing some remarkable trans people, like Vandy Beth Glenn. The notion that she's a "man in a dress with a bad wig" is offensive and gross.

Fortunately, the scientific, medical, and legal system all disagree with that assessment.
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What is the scientific consensus on men becoming women (i.e. changing their chromosomes, men having babies etc)?

Is there really a medical consensus that says the best way to help people who feel distressed about not fitting into societal gender stereotypes is for them to identify themselves as members of the opposite sex or even to change their bodies to more resemble their opposite sex?

It is extremely worrying that the legal systems (and other systems) in some countries have been corrupted by transgender activist woo.
 
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