TERFs crash London Pride

[3point14]

They know it's a problem

Quote the reverse. I'm waiting for someone to show, with any reasonable application of critical thinking or statistical techniques, that there is actually a problem.

Perhaps you can do that? No-one else has managed it.

 

[sadhatter]

Then it won't be too hard for you to show those numbers. From where are you gathering your information? Can I see it? Can I see your maths?





No, I just want you to show there is actually a significant problem to be solved. That's a might list you've written above. At the risk of repeating myself, do you have any evidence that it's a statistically significant risk that requires action. Because all I've seen is what you believe and your anecdotes. That's lousy logic. That's not even logic.

The chances of being in a mass shooting are incredibly small yet we take actions to correct them. In fact there is a massive movement for that right now.

Should they stop?

 

[sadhatter]

Quote the reverse. I'm waiting for someone to show, with any reasonable application of critical thinking or statistical techniques, that there is actually a problem.

Perhaps you can do that? No-one else has managed it.

Put my quote in context and answer as such and I will go through that effort.

When you skip and ignore 90 pet cent of my post I don't feel you are arguing in good faith.

 

[3point14]

Put my quote in context and answer as such and I will go through that effort.

When you skip and ignore 90 pet cent of my post I don't feel you are arguing in good faith.

Okay:

No need to go over board, it's not because it doesn't affect them, it's because supporting trans folks gets them more applause from the sjw crowd.

It's being selfish not ignorant, give them some credit. They know it's a problem

Quite the reverse. I'm waiting for someone to show, with any reasonable application of critical thinking or statistical techniques, that there is actually a problem.

Perhaps you can do that? No-one else has managed it.

and they picked their side based on what gets them more likes.

 

[sadhatter]

Can you define your terms, please? What is a man, and what is a woman?

Man= barring injury,mutation ,disease ,effects of aging , etc. could produce a child with a woman via unassisted sexual Intercourse.

Woman= the reverse of man.

Seems better than

Man=anything

Woman=anything.

 

[sadhatter]

Okay:




Quite the reverse. I'm waiting for someone to show, with any reasonable application of critical thinking or statistical techniques, that there is actually a problem.

Perhaps you can do that? No-one else has managed it.

That's not replying that's just placing the quote above your lazy reply.

Try harder and so will I.

 

[Information Analyst]

In what way are inoffensive trans-identifying people being restricted from their normal daily activities by a group of lesbians rocking up to Pride with banners that say things like "Lesbian = female homosexual" and "The penis is not a female organ"?

Because said group of lesbians are directly denying - as you are - the personal validity of transwomen and transmen. The very fact that you can't even bring yourself to use those terms, but instead keep saying "trans identifying men/women" is exactly the same denialism.

 

[Rolfe]

To one side.

To the other is about members of the LGBT community being silenced in favor of members that are more media relevant.

Stories about gay people are so last last year, trans is where it is at for gaining sjw points.

There is an argument that the trans lobby case has been taken up by Stonewall because as a gay, lesbian, homosexual lobby organisation they're redundant. They've got everything they wanted in that department, legally speaking. There's nothing left to campaign for as regards legislation and rights.

So what do they do? Disband, and everyone loses their jobs? Contract with death by a thousand cuts as their funding dries up? Or find a new group to be active for?

This is the basis of the lesbians' complaint. That their own organisation is ostracising them and taking the side of the heterosexual men who want into their pants. That was precisely the point being made by their banners. And the organisers tried to have them thrown off the Pride march for carrying these banners. (The men in skirts with the pink baseball bats wrapped in barbed wire labelled "TERF-basher" were absolutely fine though. That was just symbolic, didn't mean anything, not an actual incitement to violence - not like calling a man in a skirt "he", because that's literal violence.)

 

[3point14]

That's not replying that's just placing the quote above your lazy reply.

Try harder and so will I.

Not really sure what you want then. I don't know that I can place it in any more context than your entire quote.

If you could be specific about what you would like me to include with my question, I will make every effort to meet your request.

 

[zooterkin]

There does not appear to be a cohort of trans-identifying women who are being violent and aggressive towards men, and calling gay men transphobic if they say they don't want to have sex with them. So this is a problem pretty much confined to the male of the species.

And how many trans-identifying men are being violent and aggressive towards women, and calling lesbians transphobic if they say they don't want to have sex with them?

 

[Information Analyst]

And yet you and others are content to insist that because you know a few trans-identifying men who are inoffensive, nice people then that characterises the whole group and anyone who's different from that is the aberration.

It works both ways.

Or maybe the rational interpretation is that the anecdotal numbers suggest the ones you're bothered by are really just a noisy minority.

A bit like the noisy minority who decided to crash London Pride and steal the front of the march from the NHS. Never mind, I'm sure we can just pretend that wasn't a ****** and selfish thing to do, and we can pretend next year is the NHS's 70 anniversary all over again, and they can have another go at leading the march, eh?

 

[Rolfe]

Because said group of lesbians are directly denying - as you are - the personal validity of transwomen and transmen. The very fact that you can't even bring yourself to use those terms, but instead keep saying "trans identifying men/women" is exactly the same denialism.

Well of course they're pointing out that these people are not women. Because they're not women. This seems to be the basis for your position, that you demand that others should acknowledge something which is outside actual reality.

Well hey, reality called. These people are not women because a man cannot turn into a woman.

 

[Rolfe]

Or maybe the rational interpretation is that the anecdotal numbers suggest the ones you're bothered by are really just a noisy minority.

A bit like the noisy minority who decided to crash London Pride and steal the front of the march from the NHS. Never mind, I'm sure we can just pretend that wasn't a ****** and selfish thing to do, and we can pretend next year is the NHS's 70 anniversary all over again, and they can have another go at leading the march, eh?

As I understand it, they did not set out to lead the march. They set out to join the march, and the organisers tried to have them ejected. They then lay down in the street either on or under their banners, not sure which. At some point the organisers were made aware that legally they had no power to exclude the women from the march. Their eventual position was the result of this contretemps and not actually intended.

 

[Information Analyst]

People denied gay people were doing gay things? I think the issue was rather the opposite they knew they were going on and hatred it.

Stop trying to shoehorn in comparisons that don't fit.

Try not getting hold of the wrong end of the stick.

 

[Information Analyst]

You accept that someone can be transgender but deny that someone can have the soul of an animal. How is that different?

I have no idea. It's your non sequitur, not mine.

 

[JoeMorgue]

This isn't the debate we need to be having. Questions of how exactly transgender people have to be conceptualized don't change the fact that they aren't a danger to us.

 

[Information Analyst]

I wonder why that is. I'd guess that men simply don't care as much as women do but it's not obvious to me why that is. Maybe they're less afraid, or more accepting, or have different criteria for what makes someone able to join said space, or aren't as entitled to their own "(male) spaces".

One could be snarky and point out that men have had fifty years of being told they don't have any "male" spaces left that shouldn't be also open to women, and so have got used to not having any anymore.

Doesn't that just demonstrate the law of unintended consequences...?

 

[Rolfe]

And how many trans-identifying men are being violent and aggressive towards women, and calling lesbians transphobic if they say they don't want to have sex with them?

Well, here's a sample. https://terfisaslur.com/

As I said, I hear many lesbians lamenting that lesbian groups have been universally over-run by such people and that it's impossible to have a women-only group for anything without being accused of transphobia. That suggests it's not just one or two atypical individuals. I discovered recently that someone I've known slightly for about 20 years has a blog railing against lesbians for not being open to having sex with him. I've attended a public meeting to discuss the wider issues, and the speakers and the audience, describing their own personal experiences, certainly convinced me there was a problem.

 

[Rolfe]

This isn't the debate we need to be having. Questions of how exactly transgender people have to be conceptualized don't change the fact that they aren't a danger to us.

Your name is Joe, not Jo. I don't think transgender people are a danger to you.

 

[Information Analyst]

I don't disbelieve the lesbians whose accounts I read about all their meetings being over-run by men insisting that they must be treated as women and their penises as big clitorises or lady dicks. I've seen a lot of relevant activity online supporting the case that there's a sizeable problem.

And how representative are these lesbians? Most I know are too busy living their lives to be attending the meetings of the over-politicised minority.