-
Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more
Teenage Killers in Finland
- Thread starter Vixen
- Start date
Historically school age bullying was like most abuse children suffered not really something to be acknowledged never mind dealt with a systematic manner.
It is only since the 1980s that society has started to acknowledge and attempted to reduce the harm caused by bullying. Indeed I would argue that historically complaining about bullying was seen as a failure of character of the victim, and sadly we still see remnants of that attitude today.
I would assume that there are statistics kept so we can see what effect different strategies have achieved or not. Obviously one of the issues may be that we simply don't have an accurate picture of the level of bullying that does go on.
Yeah, I think all of that is accurate, particularly the last sentence.
This seems a good starting point: https://www.ditchthelabel.org/research-papers/
Organisation setup to help reduce bullying for under 25s. Looks like they've been doing regular surveys/research. Their 2020 report: https://www.ditchthelabel.org/research-papers/the-annual-bullying-survey-2020/
The report covers: "THIS REPORT DRAWS ON THE EXPERIENCES OF 13,387 PEOPLE AGED 12-18."
That is secondary education in the UK.
Organisation setup to help reduce bullying for under 25s. Looks like they've been doing regular surveys/research. Their 2020 report: https://www.ditchthelabel.org/research-papers/the-annual-bullying-survey-2020/
The report covers: "THIS REPORT DRAWS ON THE EXPERIENCES OF 13,387 PEOPLE AGED 12-18."
That is secondary education in the UK.
Last edited:
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Incredible. How to deal with this:
You would never guess from the 'happy' images associated with adolescents.
There is a school bully project in Finland called 'Kiva Koulu' (kiva: lovely, nice): = 'Nice Schools', about creating an atmosphere of emotional intelligence. They are now discussing a name change as they believe it promotes a false image of school experience for many schoolkids.
From wiki [Google translate]
Yet we still have something that could come out of Lord of the Flies in Helsinki.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
What has shocked people is the fact that the victim was known to have been a target for bullies since kindergarten, often accosted in the school corridors and his school cap thrown about. The KiVa Koulu model, which is also similar to the one in the UK and elsewhere, is a type of counselling, where an investigation is carried out, the bully apologises for his or her behaviour and everybody is happy. However, it doesn't appear to solve much and now it is being suggested that any violence, assault or robbery of school bags, sports gear, vandalism, defacing the victim's property, should automatically be reported to the police instead, for the older age groups.
Ilta-Sanomat [google translate]
Last edited:
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Apropos of this, here's the type of stuff the far right put out:
https://twitter.com/truthcommissio/status/1341309965391327235?s=20
It seems Somalis are the scapegoat for the racists, including Kookemus candidate (conservatives) Miia Autero, of Espoo, who had a rant about how she didn't mind her daughter mixing with children of Estonian or Russian background but the Somalis were disruptive etc., etc [insert your own racist stereotype] so her daughter took her dad to school in order that the Somali children could see that he was big and strong and that they were not to mess with her.
Pathetic, isn't it?
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
In Cold Blood
Pretrial material released on Monday in Helsinki to the press is designed to consider whether the killing of the 15-year-old victim by two 16-year-olds and one 15-16 year-old (the date of the killing was 4 Dec 2020, his birthday) was premeditated. The prosecution are arguing, it was a cold-blooded premeditated murder citing:
The defence are claiming that the boys had not intended to kill the victim. However, they cannot claim the boy died of hypothermia as it has been established that the cause of death was as a result of the multiple injuries (a page long list) that was sustained during the attack.
A builder only found the body by chance on Monday as he went over by the park to relieve himself but saw the corpse on the ground by the stage, naked from the waist down.
Two of the three boys had returned on Saturday morning to clear away the beer cans and exchange more messages, yet just left the victim there the way he was found.
The oldest boy is also accused of assaulting the two younger ones.
The parents seem to include a teacher, a physiotherapist, an actress and a well-known business guru.
The mother of the boy who didn't want to ruin his weekend but told her he had 'done something terrible' also rang the police and thus the three were arrested and charged. A fourth boy was arrested and charged for his participation in the earlier incidents.
Pretrial material released on Monday in Helsinki to the press is designed to consider whether the killing of the 15-year-old victim by two 16-year-olds and one 15-16 year-old (the date of the killing was 4 Dec 2020, his birthday) was premeditated. The prosecution are arguing, it was a cold-blooded premeditated murder citing:
- text messages between the three planning the crime in advance
- the plan was to invite the victim to the youngest suspect's 16th birthday party under the guise of friendly celebration
- they planned to buy some Captain Morgan Whisky and cans of beer
- they planned to get the young victim drunk and then beat him to death (although they didn't use those words)
- After chatting together in a friendly way, the assault began, with Birthday Boy kicking the victim, A, in the legs
- the other two joined in raining punches to his face and body
- when he fell to the ground the bullies forced his mouth open and poured whisky in it, to the victim's protests
- one of the bullies had to leave the scene for a while; the other two sent him Snap Chat pictures of them beating him
- Whilst the victim was on the ground, the oldest boy kicked him in the head
- They dragged him to his feet and led him to the park by the hospital where he was found
- they then continued the assault by hitting him with a metal bar over the head and ribs
- the boy who had left, received the messages and returned, immediately twice hitting the victim in the face with his fists
- the oldest boy stood on the nearby stage and jumped on to the victim's head several times from a height
- the victim's sports trousers were torn off and a firework inserted between his buttocks
- the bullies set light to this firework and filmed it on Snap Chat. The older boy told police the three then shook hands with each other after the explosion.
- the three of them urinated on the victim's head
- they had thrown empty beer cans at his head, the oldest boy throwing a full one
- he was beaten, kicked and hit in the ribs, and his genitals trampled on
- when the boys had finished they left him and confirmed he was still moving
- despite being badly injured and the intervening night very cold, they did nothing to fetch help
- the older boy said he didn't want to tell his mother until after the weekend
- the three then sent some messages expressing remorse which one of the boys confirmed had been written to make them look better (knowing that the police would see them, thus manipulatiing the police perception aftermath)
- the same boys and one other had also robbed and assaulted the boy three or four times previously since August 2020
MTV - google translate
The defence are claiming that the boys had not intended to kill the victim. However, they cannot claim the boy died of hypothermia as it has been established that the cause of death was as a result of the multiple injuries (a page long list) that was sustained during the attack.
A builder only found the body by chance on Monday as he went over by the park to relieve himself but saw the corpse on the ground by the stage, naked from the waist down.
Two of the three boys had returned on Saturday morning to clear away the beer cans and exchange more messages, yet just left the victim there the way he was found.
The oldest boy is also accused of assaulting the two younger ones.
The parents seem to include a teacher, a physiotherapist, an actress and a well-known business guru.
The mother of the boy who didn't want to ruin his weekend but told her he had 'done something terrible' also rang the police and thus the three were arrested and charged. A fourth boy was arrested and charged for his participation in the earlier incidents.
smartcooky
Penultimate Amazing
There are no words to adequately describe the pure evil of these three. IMO they can never be rehabilitated from that level of depravity
They knew exactly what they were doing - they planned and carried out an execution by a purposefully violent, excruciatingly painful means. Lock them up, throw away the key and forget about them. Let them rot away for the rest of their lives in jail - the public at large will never be safe if they are allowed out.
Last edited:
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
My thoughts exactly. There appears to be no motive at all other than sadistic cruelty. I understand that one of them comes from a wealthy family with a big house and wears the latest designer clothes. One has a father who is said to be a journalist at YLE (the Finnish equivalent of BBC).
How can the parents be so unaware?
Not happening in Finland, the maximum penalty for murder is 12yrs as they are underage and the custom is to serve only a certain proportion of that time. As a general principle I totally support our mild sentences and leniency especially for 1st time offenders. This case sounds like there is one person that is pretty much permanently irredeemable likely to due to a combination of genetics and circumstances who should probably never be let back to society and then two followers that might be able to be saved. Anyway, I know that this way too liberal thinking for most people.
This is what I wrote in my blog inspired by this case and the tabloid and social media storm of moral righteousness surrounding it:
I think I have had now my fill of that debased and sadistic - even more sadistic than the original - semi-Victorian morality that oozes from almost every pore of this primitive and cruel society. There is no right to moral righteousness for anyone. When we see monsters, we see ourselves. We all would do unspeakable things in right circumstances. Not in identical circumstances depending on our luck of birth and genetics. Some are damaged from birth, fatally inverted already then. By far more have their inversions later as basically demanded by the hateful structures of society and civilization and the individual circumstance rising from these primitive structures. This is not to say that many people would not be permanently deformed. There are many such irredeemable people and they should have no access ever to the general society. But no "punishments", no moral superiority, just as humane precautions as possible. And no right whatsoever to righteousness.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
First of all, the boy who was the most violent, is not necessarily the boy who was the worst. In law it is to do with intentionality. There is the other boy who was popular and who seems to have planned it, with the other two boys vying for his approval. For the other two boys, he seems to have been their only friend. One boy didn't even know the victim (the most violent one). However, it was the victim's oldest friend from early childhood - their parents may have been in business together - who started the violence and even as he forcibly poured strong alcohol into the victim's mouth, tried to persuade (deceive) him that, 'I am on your side...'
The chattering classes are focussed on the 'lack of empathy'. How much of it is due to the mindless violence in young adult Netflix series or computer games, not to mention the fashion of capturing everything on Snap Chat? These boys thought beating up a 'friend' made for good social media sharing.
Which one of the boys is the true psychopath, too dangerous to ever be let out except under heavy licence in perhaps old age?
The one who - like perhaps Charles Manson - manipulated young teenage naive minds into doing his cold-blooded will? The one who was happy to use a metal rod in an obscene way to a boy one year younger - whom he hardly knew - and then strike him hard with it (having brought it along in advance)? Or the one who was a friend from childhood who betrayed him by pretending to be a friend and inviting him to join him in his sixteenth birthday celebration? This latter boy seems to have been seeking the approval of the first, Alpha, boy, with he, too, almost a year younger than the other two. It is said this was the boy who told his (single) mum the following Monday.
Two of these boys would do it again.
Last edited:
Well, at the moment versions and interpretations vary. In the well known Heino case where teenage boys murdered a married couple, it was widely seen that there was one quite psychopathic manipulator and two weak followers, and based on media many people seem to think that this pattern was repeated here. Though it might be that this disgusting, totally abhorrent deed was the result of all three meeting. Quite possibly, with any of the three missing, the end result would not have been a murder.
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
The main perp in the Heino case - who was the only one convicted of murder and appears to be already out of prison - was motivated by money and revenge for a perceived slight (in being ripped off over mobile phone sell and buy), not to mention the fact his family are millionaires. Certainly, that guy shows clear psychopathic symptoms: manipulative of others, machiavellian, cunning and calculating (disposing of the bodies in suticases and throwing them in the sea), getting two gullible young lads to do the actual killing, no doubt in thrall of his wealth and popularity, not to mention educated charm and good manners.
There is another case of a 15-year-old girl in Seinäjoki who, in a fit of insane jealously over a boy she was infatuated with, stabbed another girl over sixteen times in the chest, in 2015. She got just nine years and seems to be already out of prison, as youth offenders only have to do two-thirds, by law. Looking at the details of her crime, one could say there are clear signs of psychosis to let jealousy lead you to the slaying of another innocent young girl, yet, she was imprisoned, not hospitalised.
In this current Koskela case, one of the boys, the golden 'popular' boy B (not boy A, the rich violent one) actually texted to boy C, the youngest, the victim's oldest friend, 'We're in Finland so we can get away with it', or words to that effect. Machiavellian, or what?! He knows two of them will get just two to three years and hopes that Boy A will get the twelve years for murder, out in nine.*
What has Finland become when teenage thrill killers know they will be treated with gentle kid gloves? There was a time murderers were executed by an axe to the neck!
*Boy B has been caught scheming with Boy C in the aftermath to put all the blame on Boy A. This is because these messages are afterwards, designed for police eyes, yet Boy B and Boy C managed to block boy A and remove the locations immediately after, so they knew how to 'get rid'. As a measure of how cold-bloodedly calculating this boy B is, he claims he is only responsible for punching the victim in the face twice and his interrogation interview is said to be full of 'I don't recall', 'I don't remember', or 'I don't know', in comparison to Boy A, who has tried to be as full and and helpful as possible to the police, giving them a detailed description.**
**Notandum: Disclaimer: this is just internet chatter and might be complete ********.
Last edited:
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Trial Resumes Monday 1 Mar 2021
So today the hearing resumes.
The prosecutors are aiming to prove the minimal level of probability: that the accused ought to and should have been aware that the level of violence they used against the victim very likely would have led to his death.
One of the boys or more claims to have seen the victim's hand move (one hand was deliberately broken by boy A, the one who barely knew the victim but did know boy B from riippukoulu (confirmation class for sixteen-year-olds)). Boy B, seems to be at the centre of the Venn diagram, knowing all three of the boys, the victim and his best friend Boy C, from primary school. That the victim's hand moved could easily have been an after death movement, which is not at all uncommon. In any case, as of the time the defendants walked off, leaving the victim out in the freezing 3°C temperature, the victim had had his personal bodily region so badly mutilated his testicles would have had to have been removed even had the boys attempted to save him.
The stunning part is, that 6th Dec, just after the 4 Dec 2020 slaying, was Finland's biggest day of the year, after Christmas, Independence Day, where traditionally everybody stocks up on food to watch television all evening as the movers and shakers, together with the war time veterans, all dressed in their finest clothes shake hands with the President or are honoured with medals and awards. So, the Boy who waited until AFTER the weekend before telling his mother, really didn't care, callously and coldly deciding he'd enjoy the national holiday instead, first, whilst his victim lay in the cold and dark, with his arms spread out, as reported by the builder who discovered him on the Monday.
There have been no applications for bail, which would have been refused anyway, due to the aggravated nature of the crime and no objection to the order for a psychological assessment of the defendants.
Of course, one does have to bear in mind that these are still growing adolescents. Their ability to grasp the enormity of what they did would not be at the same level of a worldly wise adult who does understand the meaning of consequences and the permanence of death, together with the deep sense of loss experienced by the deceased's nearest and dearest. The boys likely saw it as a huge joke, even, although of course, many criminals who go on to be psychopathic cold-blooded killers did shows signs of sadism and cruelty in childhood. For example, poisoner Graham Young, or child killer Mary Bell, who strangled pigeons. So we do have to realise that these are undeveloped young adults with an ipso facto flawed sense of responsibility and balance it against an incredibly sadistic act against a 'friend' and to ensure justice for the victim as well as making allowances for them.
So today the hearing resumes.
The prosecutors are aiming to prove the minimal level of probability: that the accused ought to and should have been aware that the level of violence they used against the victim very likely would have led to his death.
One of the boys or more claims to have seen the victim's hand move (one hand was deliberately broken by boy A, the one who barely knew the victim but did know boy B from riippukoulu (confirmation class for sixteen-year-olds)). Boy B, seems to be at the centre of the Venn diagram, knowing all three of the boys, the victim and his best friend Boy C, from primary school. That the victim's hand moved could easily have been an after death movement, which is not at all uncommon. In any case, as of the time the defendants walked off, leaving the victim out in the freezing 3°C temperature, the victim had had his personal bodily region so badly mutilated his testicles would have had to have been removed even had the boys attempted to save him.
The stunning part is, that 6th Dec, just after the 4 Dec 2020 slaying, was Finland's biggest day of the year, after Christmas, Independence Day, where traditionally everybody stocks up on food to watch television all evening as the movers and shakers, together with the war time veterans, all dressed in their finest clothes shake hands with the President or are honoured with medals and awards. So, the Boy who waited until AFTER the weekend before telling his mother, really didn't care, callously and coldly deciding he'd enjoy the national holiday instead, first, whilst his victim lay in the cold and dark, with his arms spread out, as reported by the builder who discovered him on the Monday.
There have been no applications for bail, which would have been refused anyway, due to the aggravated nature of the crime and no objection to the order for a psychological assessment of the defendants.
ILTA-LEHTI [Google translate]
Of course, one does have to bear in mind that these are still growing adolescents. Their ability to grasp the enormity of what they did would not be at the same level of a worldly wise adult who does understand the meaning of consequences and the permanence of death, together with the deep sense of loss experienced by the deceased's nearest and dearest. The boys likely saw it as a huge joke, even, although of course, many criminals who go on to be psychopathic cold-blooded killers did shows signs of sadism and cruelty in childhood. For example, poisoner Graham Young, or child killer Mary Bell, who strangled pigeons. So we do have to realise that these are undeveloped young adults with an ipso facto flawed sense of responsibility and balance it against an incredibly sadistic act against a 'friend' and to ensure justice for the victim as well as making allowances for them.
Last edited:
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Putki in this case, not puukko.
Pictured: released police photo of the supposed metal rod used in the crime.
Attachments
Last edited:
Vixen
Penultimate Amazing
Wednesday 3 March 2021 - Final Day of Trial: Final Submissions
The court in the Koskela killing case winds up today with the Defence and the Prosecution giving their closing statements. The Prosecutor demands long prison sentences (12 years is the maximum for this age group, so they will still only be 29 on release if this is happens). The Defence demands immediate release - presumably on bail whilst the judges deliberate for a few weeks in a reserved judgment and sentencing - which has been summarily rejected. Problem is the boys will be in danger from an angry public so are likely safer inside.
This is a difficult one because one of the boys committed the worst violence, boy A. One of them used deception and betrayal to lure the victim, boy C - a friend from early childhood - to the planned attack, and which was planned by the boy who used the least violence, boy B. Boy B knew from a previous assault on the victim that the more violent boy, Boy A, was capable of extreme aggression, so you could say Boy A was invited by svengali Boy B, to do the worst. Does his make boy B less culpable than Boy A or even boy C?
I am not sure if today's session is open to the public or closed again. Surely it is in the public interest to hear due process.
The court in the Koskela killing case winds up today with the Defence and the Prosecution giving their closing statements. The Prosecutor demands long prison sentences (12 years is the maximum for this age group, so they will still only be 29 on release if this is happens). The Defence demands immediate release - presumably on bail whilst the judges deliberate for a few weeks in a reserved judgment and sentencing - which has been summarily rejected. Problem is the boys will be in danger from an angry public so are likely safer inside.
MTV
This is a difficult one because one of the boys committed the worst violence, boy A. One of them used deception and betrayal to lure the victim, boy C - a friend from early childhood - to the planned attack, and which was planned by the boy who used the least violence, boy B. Boy B knew from a previous assault on the victim that the more violent boy, Boy A, was capable of extreme aggression, so you could say Boy A was invited by svengali Boy B, to do the worst. Does his make boy B less culpable than Boy A or even boy C?
I am not sure if today's session is open to the public or closed again. Surely it is in the public interest to hear due process.