Syria and UN Security Council Decision

[bigjelmapro]

Sorry, but Syria is already in a state of chaos,. I don't know where this article writer gets his info, or lack thereof and how miraculously the issue of oil and what it has to do with Syria in the first place, is mentioned in the article (blatant red herring).

On that note, the international community's responsibility is not "to destroy the country's armed forces" but to depose Assad. One can do the latter without the need for the prior.

I do find it interesting that the article mentions the issue of education, women's rights, payment of salaries, etc. as some sort of justification in keeping Assad in power rather than have a transition of power. And that it assumes that somehow Assad in power is better than any other situation, between a Western-style democracy to that of a full-fledged Sharia state.

ie: World Report 2011: Syria
Go over the reports, from the latest to the decades before.
But I understand Childlike Empress and JJ's need to keep spamming articles and shoving all the points regarding these articles and previous misguided statements under the collective carpet.

Real nice debating tactic....

 

[Childlike Empress]

Sorry, but Syria is already in a state of chaos,. I don't know where this article writer gets his info, or lack thereof and how miraculously the issue of oil and what it has to do with Syria in the first place, is mentioned in the article (blatant red herring).

Red herring back to you. "Oil" is mentioned exactly once in the article and JJ's snippet makes it very clear what it has to do with Syria:

[...] Thereupon, the country sinks into chaos, as armed bands rove, prisoners are tortured, women are put in their place, salaries are unpaid, education and social welfare are neglected, but oil is pumped and the West is encouraged by its success to go on to liberate another country.

That at least was the Libyan model. Except that in the case of Syria, things are more complicated.

You should read the whole article, it's an excellent summary of the situation.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Red herring back to you. "Oil" is mentioned exactly once in the article and JJ's snippet makes it very clear what it has to do with Syria:




You should read the whole article, it's an excellent summary of the situation.

Is Syria now an net exporter of oil?
Last I checked, wasn't, but maybe things changed in the past couple of years.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Don't think so. Why?

 

[McHrozni]

Is Syria now an net exporter of oil?
Last I checked, wasn't, but maybe things changed in the past couple of years.

According to CIA world factbook it exports 260,000 bpd of crude and imports about 50,000 bpd of refined oil products, making it a minor net exporter. In terms of value it's actually questionable how much they earn.

McHrozni

 

[bigjelmapro]

Red herring back to you. "Oil" is mentioned exactly once in the article and JJ's snippet makes it very clear what it has to do with Syria:

Thanks for actually acknowledging it that it exists in the article when it shouldn't have been mentioned in the first place.

I enjoyed the scare quotes as well. Its natural gas by the way.

If Turkey gets cut off in the south by the Syrians violence, then one or several of its neighbors will pick up the pace.

So still, red herring.

You should read the whole article, it's an excellent summary of the situation.

And you should read the responses to some of this peculiar and often ridiculous summaries. Try perhaps more responsible investigative journalists. Ones who adhere to an actual standard rather than sensationalism and speculation and then try to pass it off as truthful.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Just in, an English translation of the draft constitution that was delivered to Assad a few days ago after four months of work. The clowns in Washington already called the initiative "laughable", apparently before even reading it.

On February 15, 2012, amid rising unrest in the country, Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad announced that the country would hold a referendum on a new constitution. The draft document, published on the Syrian Arab News Agency (SANA) today, promises political pluralism and democratic elections in a bid to address the national and international demands for regime change.

Within a few hours of the draft constitution’s release, Qordoba’s team of world-class translators were set to motion from Qordoba’s headquarters in Dubai, UAE, to provide the international community with an English language version of the document.

 

[Virus]

Just in, an English translation of the draft constitution that was delivered to Assad a few days ago after four months of work. The clowns in Washington already called the initiative "laughable", apparently before even reading it.

You'll believe anything.

 

[trustbutverify]

Anything that supports her/his infantile ideological fantasies.

 

[Number Six]

Here is an interview from a recent Daily Show that is relevant to Syria and the UN vetoes. The relevant part on Syria starts at 4:15 although the earlier part of the interview, about Iran, is interesting too. The interviewee is Ali Soufan, a Lebanese-American who once worked for the FBI and investigated various terrorist attacks and wrote a book about it titled "The Black Banners," which I'm now finishing reading and which is pretty interesting.

I get the impression that there are some historical and ethnic considerations involved. As far as China goes, the official line is that they don't want to get involved in the internal business of other countries and the official response of people skeptical of that is that they're just saying that so that they have a basis for saying that other countries shouldn't get involved in their internal business. But Aii Soufan has an additional explanation involving ethnic minorities in China that may agitate for their own separate state eventually.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/mon-february-13-2012/ali-soufan

 

[Childlike Empress]

The attempts by both US officials and corporate media at supporting the narrative of the Syrian army shelling civilians in Homs by presenting satellite images have backfired and it now seems likely that the armed insurgents have indeed access to heavy weaponry.

 

[bigjelmapro]

Isn't there a general thread about Syria to spam this? How does this support any of your previous points made in this thread?

More spamming of articles to detract from your previous unsupported claims, IMO.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Isn't there a general thread about Syria to spam this? How does this support any of your previous points made in this thread?

More spamming of articles to detract from your previous unsupported claims, IMO.

My main point from the beginning of this thread was that the narrative of "the dictator is unilaterally killing peaceful protesters", presented by the corporate media and interested parties, is blatantly false, to the knowledge of Russia and China, and one of the reasons for them to veto the "one-sided" UNSC resolution.

This was not only supported by the many sources I posted, but also by the turn of events while the thread was developing. By now the tone of reports has changed and it is at least acknowledged that there is a very violent, islamist element to the Syrian opposition. While it remains to be seen if the fact that this was supported by outside forces from early on will make it to the surface as well. I'm optimistic.

You parroted, you lost.

 

[Virus]

The attempts by both US officials and corporate media at supporting the narrative of the Syrian army shelling civilians in Homs by presenting satellite images have backfired and it now seems likely that the armed insurgents have indeed access to heavy weaponry.

Al-Akhbar is a pro-Hezbollah, pro-Syrian newspaper. Interesting that you've chosen that as a source when there are several good Lebanese papers.

Why do you hate Syrians? Why do you support totalitarianism?

 

[Childlike Empress]

Al-Akhbar is a ... pro-Syrian newspaper. ... Why do you hate Syrians?

Give it up, Crusader.

 

[Virus]

This was not only supported by the many sources I posted

Your sources were all twoof, communist or pro-regime rags. They aren't worth asswipe.

You really need to dial down the paranoia. It's not good for you.

 

[IDB87]

The attempts by both US officials and corporate media at supporting the narrative of the Syrian army shelling civilians in Homs by presenting satellite images have backfired and it now seems likely that the armed insurgents have indeed access to heavy weaponry.

I'm reading M of A's blog currently, and so far I've only read the critique of the ambassador's photographs.

Of the three images (burning fires, military vehicles, and impact craters [burning buildings and smoke]), M of A offers only their non-objective possibilities- they do not advance any facts. They postulate that the fires are burning agricultural products, or perhaps trash - the armored/military vehicles aren't such because they appear to be light colored (and armored/military vehicles are usually camouflaged following their logic) -

M of A is also suggesting the craters look nothing like craters because there's no clear distinction that can be observed. The claim was that the regime is using artillery and mortars on residential neighborhoods, so these craters can be from either. Naturally a round fired from a 60mm light mortar will have a much smaller impact on the ground than a round fired from a 122mm Howitzer, which M of A postulates the Syrians are using. This is not considered. It is simply assumed the craters were caused by the howitzer, and since large craters are unobserved, the claim is dismissed. Why were impact craters caused by light mortars not considered?

I will continue to read this blog, but so far am unimpressed with what's been presented.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I will continue to read this blog, but so far am unimpressed with what's been presented.

Made it to the CNN footage yet?

Here's one of the rare apologies when misleading or fake footage gets broadcasted, from early on in May 2011 when the Syria narrative was formed ... kudos to ABC Australia.


And that's how it works these days ... no conspiracy needed when hordes of outlets abandon investigate journalism and just parrot what the few news agencies deliver in an echo chamber.

 

[HoverBoarder]

My main point from the beginning of this thread was that the narrative of "the dictator is unilaterally killing peaceful protesters", presented by the corporate media and interested parties, is blatantly false, to the knowledge of Russia and China, and one of the reasons for them to veto the "one-sided" UNSC resolution.

So you do admit that The Syrian President's forces are killing THOUSANDS of civilians? Shelling, shooting, torturing...

The primary reason that Russia and China voted against the UN resolution is $$$.

This was not only supported by the many sources I posted,

Not by anything that you posted here or what is available online.

but also by the turn of events while the thread was developing. By now the tone of reports has changed and it is at least acknowledged that there is a very violent, islamist element to the Syrian opposition. While it remains to be seen if the fact that this was supported by outside forces from early on will make it to the surface as well. I'm optimistic.

While no one should give the Free Syrian Army a free pass, just like no one should give the Syrian army a pass. However, the important part now is answering what should be done to stop the bloodshed.

One answer is that now that the Constitution has been amended to say that the Baath party is no longer the ruling party, why not hold internationally monitored elections. Including for President and Congress?

What are the barriers to having free and fair elections right now?

 

[bigjelmapro]

My main point from the beginning of this thread was that the narrative of "the dictator is unilaterally killing peaceful protesters", presented by the corporate media and interested parties, is blatantly false, to the knowledge of Russia and China, and one of the reasons for them to veto the "one-sided" UNSC resolution.

No. You pointed to Al Qaida as the culprit (without one sliver of evidence) and all violence against protesters by Assad was questioned.

You sourced a biased Arab league report, which was countered with actual reports from 2 Arab league monitors who quit in protest.

This was not only supported by the many sources I posted, but also by the turn of events while the thread was developing. By now the tone of reports has changed and it is at least acknowledged that there is a very violent, islamist element to the Syrian opposition. While it remains to be seen if the fact that this was supported by outside forces from early on will make it to the surface as well. I'm optimistic.

You parroted, you lost.

Nobody denied that there were opposition elements that were violent as well. Quote otherwise.

You've merely sourced questionable 'investigative journalist' articles. Many people here countered many of the claims but all you've done is merely shove all these rebuttals under the carpet and spammed more articles.

IDB87 responded to the last blog you've linked in detail, and all you've done is respond with an unrelated CNN broadcast from several months ago.

Deflections, red herrings, ad homs, conspiracy theories etc. is all I see from you. If this is all the effort you put into responses on this forum, which this has been confirmed in a number of different threads, then you've lost the argument several pages ago and continue to do so until this point.

Try again.