"Stealth Jihad" threat to US from Turkey

[leftysergeant]

The biggest difference between the two is the separation of meat and dairy and the prohibition of shellfish or non-ruminant mammals in kosher.

 

[Random]

I guess it depends on how stringent Butterball's definition of Halal is. If you are seriously hardcore about it, the turkey must be slaughtered by a Muslim who gives thanks to Allah at the time of execution. If you are using a more liberal standard, it only needs to be slaughtered by a "Person of the book" (Muslim, Jew, Christian, Zoroastrian, or Sabian) who doesn't mention anyone other than Allah at the time of slaughter. So its possible that a 50 year old man who was raised Baptist, but who hasn't been to church in thirty years can push a button on an automated turkey-thoat-slitting-machine and it still qualifies as Halal.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I don't think that's actually true; I see that they've opened halal restaurants in Muslim areas (makes sense--KFC in Israel is Kosher), but if KFC worldwide is "openly" halal they don't advertise it much.

The word is out, and they don't blush about it. They don't scream it from the roof tops in St. Louis, true.

 

[Eddie Dane]

I'd always assumed that Kosher meat was "blessed" in a mass produced kind of way, meaning you have one guy at the plant who "blesses" a giant warehouse full of pallets, then signs some form saying it's all good to go. I can't imagine Halal is any different.

I worked on a chicken farm in Israel and was told that the above is roughly the process.
Jewish version, of course.

 

[Cleon]

The word is out, and they don't blush about it. They don't scream it from the roof tops in St. Louis, true.

Do you have a link?

 

[A'isha]

Do you have a link?

I can't find anything saying all KFC stores worldwide are halal. There are a few individual franchises that are halal (three restaurants in Wheaton, IL, Chicago, IL, and Lombard, IL have their own website which advertises the franchise as the "first halal KFC in the Midwest", along with an attached and also-halal A&W restaurants), and the UK's KFC website has a good FAQ about the individual halal stores there.

Of note is the fact that the halal KFCs don't just serve chicken slaughtered according to dhabihah, but all pork products are removed from and no longer served at those stores.

So, if your local KFC serves one of these monstrosities, it's probably not halal.

 

[Cleon]

I can't find anything saying all KFC stores worldwide are halal. There are a few individual franchises that are halal (three restaurants in Wheaton, IL, Chicago, IL, and Lombard, IL have their own website which advertises the franchise as the "first halal KFC in the Midwest", along with an attached and also-halal A&W restaurants), and the UK's KFC website has a good FAQ about the individual halal stores there.

Of note is the fact that the halal KFCs don't just serve chicken slaughtered according to dhabihah, but all pork products are removed from and no longer served at those stores.

Yeah, like I said before, the only thing I've seen is that some KFCs are Halal, because that tends to be a good business decision when in Muslim areas.

So, if your local KFC serves one of these monstrosities, it's probably not halal.

Ooh, forgot about those. And the grotesque "Double Down." Gawdzilla, KFC is not Halal.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

I've shared this before, but it's an appropriate thread to do so again. A number of years ago now I had an Ethiopian Muslim co-worker and we started talking about food. He was probably a bit taken aback that I even knew about the Halal/Haram differentiation, but he was clearly heartbroken when I explained to him that shrimp were shellfish and thereby Haram.

I think religiously dictated dietary restrictions are stupid to this day*, but I still feel a bit bad about telling Bahaman that a food he clearly enjoyed was on the naughty list.



* Adam Richman and Andrew Zimmern are awesome!

 

[A'isha]

I've shared this before, but it's an appropriate thread to do so again. A number of years ago now I had an Ethiopian Muslim co-worker and we started talking about food. He was probably a bit taken aback that I even knew about the Halal/Haram differentiation, but he was clearly heartbroken when I explained to him that shrimp were shellfish and thereby Haram.

Shrimp are halal according to most schools of fiqh, actually. I think only the Hanafi madh'hab considers shrimp and other shellfish like oysters and lobsters to be haram.

Weirdly, in Shia Ja'fari fiqh, only shrimp and fish with scales are halal - all other shellfish including crab and oysters are haram (there is some controversy over lobster - those scholars who think it's just a big shrimp [for the purposes of dietary laws, at least, not biologically] say it's halal, whereas those scholars who consider it a different sea animal entirely think it's haram).

 

[Polaris]

I'll get concerned when Hormel starts selling Halal ham.

I'm not convinced that they sell any kind of actual ham now as it is.

Suddenly I feel like growing a beard and blowing up a bus.

I hear ya! Made maast-o khior a few days ago and I've a strange itch to repeatedly hurl rocks at an adultress's head.

 

[leftysergeant]

I just had a big helping of suqaar with canjeero and still feel pretty mellow. I guess it has to be specificly Arab food to get you worked up.

 

[Robrob]

The biggest difference between the two is the separation of meat and dairy and the prohibition of shellfish or non-ruminant mammals in kosher.

Given their closely related origins, I wonder why the difference in opinion regarding shellfish and cheeseburgers?

Maybe the Jews lived closer to the coast so they cared more about seafood than the Arabs?

 

[leftysergeant]

Given their closely related origins, I wonder why the difference in opinion regarding shellfish and cheeseburgers?

Maybe the Jews lived closer to the coast so they cared more about seafood than the Arabs?

There is not a lot of sea life in the Mediterranian, compared to the Red Sea or the Persian Gulf. There is little circulation of the water, so I would also expect paralytic seafood poisoning to be a bigger threat in the Med.

 

[Robrob]

There is not a lot of sea life in the Mediterranian, compared to the Red Sea or the Persian Gulf. There is little circulation of the water, so I would also expect paralytic seafood poisoning to be a bigger threat in the Med.

So perhaps the Jews had more interaction with bad seafood than the Muslims and thus that particular dietary restriction?

I wonder why "cloven hooves" are on the banned list, you'd think Jews would have had the same taste for camel meat as Muslims. Or why Muslims didn't take up the ban as well?

 

[Polaris]

So perhaps the Jews had more interaction with bad seafood than the Muslims and thus that particular dietary restriction?

I wonder why "cloven hooves" are on the banned list, you'd think Jews would have had the same taste for camel meat as Muslims. Or why Muslims didn't take up the ban as well?

As long as less-than-logical dietary restrictions are up for debate, I will state that no god that loves its followers would deny them bacon. Just saying.

 

[leftysergeant]

I wonder why "cloven hooves" are on the banned list, you'd think Jews would have had the same taste for camel meat as Muslims. Or why Muslims didn't take up the ban as well?

The bovids make better use of plants that are high in cellulose. Pigs compete with humans for some of the same food sources. They may also have been associated with certain pagan deities.

The ban on mixing dairy and meat appears to have also been associated with the shunning of pagan practices. It has been several years, so I cannot give you a source, but I recall reading a translation of a partial text from the ruins of Ugarit describing a heroes' banquet at which the offering made to Ba'al was a suckling goat simmered in milk. Since the object of many of the commandments placed on them by God concerned being as little like the Caananites as possible, banning the sacred foods of the cult of Ba'al makes sense.

 

[Ausmerican]

To compound Ms Gellars already spectacular failure it now appears that Butterball turkes are not halal here in the U.S. Only turkeys that are prepared for some foreign markets are.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/art...tterball_Turkeys_Sold_in_US_Are_Not_Halal#rss

 

[leftysergeant]

To compound Ms Gellars already spectacular failure it now appears that Butterball turkes are not halal here in the U.S. Only turkeys that are prepared for some foreign markets are.

You mean that little sociopath attempted to operate her mouth without fully engaging her brain? Whadda sooo-PRISE!

 

[Robrob]

The bovids make better use of plants that are high in cellulose. Pigs compete with humans for some of the same food sources. They may also have been associated with certain pagan deities.

I had always heard it had something to do with trichinosis - but thought that seemed a little too "medical" for a stone age tribe.

The ban on mixing dairy and meat appears to have also been associated with the shunning of pagan practices. It has been several years, so I cannot give you a source, but I recall reading a translation of a partial text from the ruins of Ugarit describing a heroes' banquet at which the offering made to Ba'al was a suckling goat simmered in milk. Since the object of many of the commandments placed on them by God concerned being as little like the Caananites as possible, banning the sacred foods of the cult of Ba'al makes sense.

Interesting, I had never heard a rationalization for the ban. Seemed kind of an unusually specific prohibition. Other than cheeseburgers and beef stroganoff, I can't think of too many ways it would come up.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

Shrimp are halal according to most schools of fiqh, actually. I think only the Hanafi madh'hab considers shrimp and other shellfish like oysters and lobsters to be haram.

Weirdly, in Shia Ja'fari fiqh, only shrimp and fish with scales are halal - all other shellfish including crab and oysters are haram (there is some controversy over lobster - those scholars who think it's just a big shrimp [for the purposes of dietary laws, at least, not biologically] say it's halal, whereas those scholars who consider it a different sea animal entirely think it's haram).

Ah, interesting. I hope Bahaman (who was Sunni) would have talked to his Imam before taking my word for it.

I'm not convinced that they sell any kind of actual ham now as it is.