"Stealth Jihad" threat to US from Turkey

[DC]

Are there any legitimate animal welfare concerns about the way that turkeys are slaughtered to make them halal?

Also, what exactly is the process to make them halal? Are they just automatically halal by virtue of not being on a list of forbidden foods, or do they have to undergo some kind of special treatment?

yelling Alla Akbar when cutting meat

 

[Beerina]

Gee, I've had both falafel and hummus....Which way is Mecca?

Frack! Thanks for reminding me -- I have leftover shawarma and hummous in the fridge from Yestiddy. Nice way to wake up on Thanksgiving.


It's the second most flavorful food on the planet, after Indian food, also having nothing to do with Europe or Christianity.

 

[A'isha]

Are there any legitimate animal welfare concerns about the way that turkeys are slaughtered to make them halal?

Oh, absolutely. Though, as mentioned above, that's an odd thing for Geller and her group to be concerned about, since halal slaughter is effectively the same as kosher slaughter (at least as far as treatment of the animal is concerned), to the point where, as the article in my OP notes, laws banning halal slaughter make kosher slaughter illegal as well.

Given that Geller is (ostensibly, anyway) Jewish, and often mentions how that is one of the major motivations behind her anti-Islam activism, one would think she'd be a bit more cognizant of how her crusade against halal could have an equally detrimental effect on members of her own religion that just want to follow their religious dietary laws.

Also, what exactly is the process to make them halal? Are they just automatically halal by virtue of not being on a list of forbidden foods, or do they have to undergo some kind of special treatment?

"Halal" simple means "permitted", under Muslim religious law. Sometimes this a matter of simply not eating things that have been forbidden (like pork). In other cases, there are certain things that have to be done in order to make something "permitted".

Slaughtering and butchering an animal so that is halal for Muslims to consume is called dhabihah. It's supposed to be carried out by a Dhabih, a mentally competent adult Muslim who understands the rules for halal slaughter (the slaughter itself can be carried out by any Person of the Book, as long as a Muslim who understands the rules supervises the process). The animal, which can't have died of old age or disease or been beaten to death, is laid in the direction of Mecca, the Dhabih performs an abbreviated Tasmiyyah, saying "Bismalla allahu akhbar" ("In the name of God, God is the Greatest"), and its trachea esophagus and jugular are cut in a single swift stroke by an extremely sharp knife, and the animal's blood is drained.

The only major difference between dhabihah and shechita (slaughter of animals under Jewish religious law so it's kosher) is the Tasmiyyah - the throat-slitting followed by the draining of blood. To be halal, the animal can not have had the names of any other gods but God pronounced over it before the slaughter, and God's name has to be pronounced. In shechita, God does not need to be invoked.

In neither case is the animal allowed to be bolt-stunned before being slaughtered, as is the usual practice in Western slaughterhouses. There is, however, some dispute as to whether minor electrical stunning is permissible for halal livestock slaughter (though even this isn't permissible for kosher slaughter - that's partly why kosher considered halal, but halal isn't necessarily kosher).

Note that mechanical slaughter of poultry is still controversial, though mostly accepted as long as the birds are not stunned, the machine is operated by a trained Muslim who can perform Tasmiyyah, and the machine properly cuts the trachea, esophagus, and jugular.

 

[Robrob]

The packer has to say magic words when killing them, which, I dunno, transubstantiates them into dynamite or something.

From what I hear it's actually nano-thermite...

 

[Puppycow]

Slaughtering and butchering an animal so that is halal for Muslims to consume is called dhabihah. It's supposed to be carried out by a Dhabih, a mentally competent adult Muslim who understands the rules for halal slaughter (the slaughter itself can be carried out by any Person of the Book, as long as a Muslim who understands the rules supervises the process). The animal, which can't have died of old age or disease or been beaten to death, is laid in the direction of Mecca, the Dhabih performs an abbreviated Tasmiyyah, saying "Bismalla allahu akhbar" ("In the name of God, God is the Greatest"), and its trachea esophagus and jugular are cut in a single swift stroke by an extremely sharp knife, and the animal's blood is drained.

The only major difference between dhabihah and shechita (slaughter of animals under Jewish religious law so it's kosher) is the Tasmiyyah - the throat-slitting followed by the draining of blood. To be halal, the animal can not have had the names of any other gods but God pronounced over it before the slaughter, and God's name has to be pronounced. In shechita, God does not need to be invoked.

In neither case is the animal allowed to be bolt-stunned before being slaughtered, as is the usual practice in Western slaughterhouses. There is, however, some dispute as to whether minor electrical stunning is permissible for halal livestock slaughter (though even this isn't permissible for kosher slaughter - that's partly why kosher considered halal, but halal isn't necessarily kosher).

Note that mechanical slaughter of poultry is still controversial, though mostly accepted as long as the birds are not stunned, the machine is operated by a trained Muslim who can perform Tasmiyyah, and the machine properly cuts the trachea, esophagus, and jugular.

Thanks for that info.

Nutcase Geller aside, that doesn't sit too well with me if in fact this is really the process that Butterball uses to slaughter every Turkey, although I find it a little hard to believe that they actually do. Maybe they use a looser definition of halal.

 

[Unabogie]

Thanks for that info.

Nutcase Geller aside, that doesn't sit too well with me if in fact this is really the process that Butterball uses to slaughter every Turkey, although I find it a little hard to believe that they actually do. Maybe they use a looser definition of halal.

I'd always assumed that Kosher meat was "blessed" in a mass produced kind of way, meaning you have one guy at the plant who "blesses" a giant warehouse full of pallets, then signs some form saying it's all good to go. I can't imagine Halal is any different.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Suddenly I feel like growing a beard and blowing up a bus.

 

[Unabogie]

Here's a link that seems to confirm this.

http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/FAQs.html

They have one guy present in the plant who blesses the whole operation. This is why "all" of their meat is halal, since how could it not be? He's blessing the whole lot of it! They probably have a dude in a cubicle doing the kosher prayers, and in the cube next to him is the halal guy.

 

[Puppycow]

I'd always assumed that Kosher meat was "blessed" in a mass produced kind of way, meaning you have one guy at the plant who "blesses" a giant warehouse full of pallets, then signs some form saying it's all good to go. I can't imagine Halal is any different.

I think that you are probably right. But, if the definition of halal slaughter that ANTPogo gives is correct, then it isn't really halal and a Muslim could sue them for false advertising. Either way, they're bound to offend somebody.

ETA: Here's what the USDA says on the matter:

HALAL and ZABIAH HALAL:
Products prepared by federally inspected meat packing plants identified with labels bearing references to "Halal" or "Zabiah Halal" must be handled according to Islamic law and under Islamic authority.

It offers no details though, nor does it define "Islamic law" or "Islamic authority."

 

[Cleon]

I can't speak for Halal meat, but AFAIK nearly all kosher meat comes from specifically kosher slaughterhouses. Agriprocessors was the largest one before a series of legal scandals brought them down a couple years ago.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

KFC has been openly halal for years.

 

[Cleon]

KFC has been openly halal for years.

I don't think that's actually true; I see that they've opened halal restaurants in Muslim areas (makes sense--KFC in Israel is Kosher), but if KFC worldwide is "openly" halal they don't advertise it much.

 

[thrombus29]

My grandfather was a Kosher butcher in upstate NY from the 40's to the 70's. My father said he had a pretty good clientele of Muslim people buying the kosher meat. The blessing didn't seem matter so much for them, it was the slitting of the throat way of slaughter that was the key piece.

 

[A'isha]

The only major difference between dhabihah and shechita (slaughter of animals under Jewish religious law so it's kosher) is the Tasmiyyah - the throat-slitting followed by the draining of blood.

Gah, that should read "the throat-slitting followed by the draining of blood is the same in both methods of religious slaughter."

I blame the jihadist turkey I ate today.

 

[leftysergeant]

What that ignorant little nutbar Geller doesn't realize is that every freaking thing she willingly puts in her mouth (other than wine) is and always has been halal.

I have always thought that there was a strong corelation between stupidity and religious bigotry. Geller proves it every time she opens her mouth to bash Muslims.

 

[Robrob]

My grandfather was a Kosher butcher in upstate NY from the 40's to the 70's. My father said he had a pretty good clientele of Muslim people buying the kosher meat. The blessing didn't seem matter so much for them, it was the slitting of the throat way of slaughter that was the key piece.

That's what confuses me about this paranoia. They are essentially the same yet one doesn't bother people and there other makes them go crazy.

 

[leftysergeant]

That's what confuses me about this paranoia. They are essentially the same yet one doesn't bother people and there other makes them go crazy.

All kosher is halal, but not all halal is kosher.

It doesn't much matter how you slaughter a camel. It ain't kosher. Creamed beef is halal, but not kosher.

As long as it bears a recognized kosher seal, it does not matter whewther a piece of meat is also inspected for halal standards.

Allah is still the God to whom Abraham prayed, so there is no idolatry factor involved.

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

My grandfather was a Kosher butcher in upstate NY from the 40's to the 70's. My father said he had a pretty good clientele of Muslim people buying the kosher meat. The blessing didn't seem matter so much for them, it was the slitting of the throat way of slaughter that was the key piece.

The fact that there wasn't any pork processed at the same butcher probably helped.

 

[Molinaro]

A company I worked for here in Toronto sells food, craft supplies and furniture to schools and day care centers throughout southern Ontario. They have halal meats available. But, if the regular meat is out of stock, they don't hesitate to send the halal version, without telling them.

 

[Robrob]

All kosher is halal, but not all halal is kosher.

It doesn't much matter how you slaughter a camel. It ain't kosher. Creamed beef is halal, but not kosher.

Ahh, so in the "Ven Diagram" of food restrictions, the Halal circle would be inside the Kosher circle, both somewhat overlapping the "all other foods" circle?

Creamed camel, the ultimate apostasy!