Standing against a tide of hatred

[Abdul Alhazred]

Standing against a tide of hatred
It is not Israel's action, but the vitriolic reaction to it that has been disproportionate. There's only one explanation: antisemitism.
The Guardian (UK)

...

While I would prefer to equate the fate of the Palestinians with that of Israel – meaning, I'd like to believe we're all on the same side – I think that might be a difficult political fiction to maintain at the moment. And while I'd like to artificially separate anti-Zionism from antisemitism, like most American Jews, I'm not willing to make that false distinction

...

I live in the only country that as a matter of policy is pro-Israel regardless of party allegiance; Democrats and Republicans equally unite behind the blue-and-white. But to communicate with anyone I think of as rightminded (and left-leaning) in any other part of the world is to experience the purest antisemitism since the Nazi era.

...

That's just a teaser, read the whole thing.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I don't think she made a case at all. In fact, she is contradicting herself when she says that she knows the horrid antisemitism in Europe and the views there about Israel, but that she hasn't been in Europe since 9/11. Where exactly did she show that the criticisms had to be antisemitic at root? And Europe has the worst antisemitism since the Nazis? Most of that article was about her feelings as a Jewish person and not about the politics of being anti-Israel. And I find the idea that anti-Israel and antisemitism are inseparable to be laughable. Oh, and she didn't prove that assertion either.

 

[gdnp]

And I find the idea that anti-Israel and antisemitism are inseparable to be laughable. Oh, and she didn't prove that assertion either.

Ditto.

Sounds like she has some identity problems: can't decide if she fees like she's an American or a Jew or an Israeli and therefore if people have a problem with Israel it must be because they have a problem with Jews. So rather than assume some of the guilt for the suffering of the Palestinians, she can ascribe the criticism to antisemitism and become a self-righteous victim instead.

 

[Oliver]

Well, it's not far-fetched to be a Jew and automatically categorize other people opinions about Israel into "pro-Israel or Anti-Semetic". That's a psychological phenomena which is quite present in here as well.

 

[dudalb]

I would still like all you who advocate the destruction of Israel to explain what will happen to the Five Million Jews living there.

 

[Cavemonster]

I would still like all you who advocate the destruction of Israel to explain what will happen to the Five Million Jews living there.

I think you wanna double back and check whatever made you believe that more than a few trolls here advocate the destruction of Israel.

Oppose certain IDF actions =/= advocate the destruction of Israel
Oppose certain IDF actions =/= hate Jews

 

[Oliver]

I would still like all you who advocate the destruction of Israel to explain what will happen to the Five Million Jews living there.

No one in here advocates the destruction of Israel as far I know. The matter of fact is that Israel is a military superpower within the region while the literally Palestinian Puppets have no other choice than being forced by Israel to see sympathy in what Hamas proposes.

Personally I think that the US-support for Israel is poisoning the situation since Israel isn't necessarily forced to achieve peace in a fair manner given the fact that the Palestinians don't have any counterbalance to Israels Policies concerning the borders, the resulting economical circumstances, basic needs and the overwhelmingly military power against them.

 

[a_unique_person]

I would still like all you who advocate the destruction of Israel to explain what will happen to the Five Million Jews living there.

I thought I said I mostly agreed with your point of view?

 

[a_unique_person]

But to communicate with anyone I think of as rightminded (and left-leaning) in any other part of the world is to experience the purest antisemitism since the Nazi era.

There is just so much wrong with that claim, it's impossible to know where to start.

 

[ddt]

I would still like all you who advocate the destruction of Israel to explain what will happen to the Five Million Jews living there.

Here's some straw for you:

[qimg]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/51/Rice_straw.jpg[/qimg]

 

[a_unique_person]

But to communicate with anyone I think of as rightminded (and left-leaning) in any other part of the world is to experience the purest antisemitism since the Nazi era. In fact, in Europe right now, it is de rigueur to liken the current regime in Israel with the Nazi party,

In one paragraph, she criticises people who compare Israel to Nazi Germany, right after comparing people to Nazis.

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

Perhaps despite the over use as a mere cuss word, some folks really are like Nazis?

Still have to make the case of course.

I would still like all you who advocate the destruction of Israel to explain what will happen to the Five Million Jews living there.

Check. Not the whole case of course.



Also:

Sounds like she has some identity problems ...

Undoubtedly true. Being a Jew is an imputed status not dependent on individual belief.

Why should I as an atheist and a non-believer in secular Zionist "national destiny" be pro-Israel? Maybe it's because the default opposite position is the extermination of members of my ethnic group who live in the ancestral homeland, and implicitly everywhere else (if "necessary").

As if it requires a "Jew" to be pro-Israel in that sense.

 

[a_unique_person]

Why should I as an atheist and a non-believer in secular Zionist "national destiny" be pro-Israel? Maybe it's because the default opposite position is the extermination of members of my ethnic group who live in the ancestral homeland, and implicitly everywhere else (if "necessary").

As if it requires a "Jew" to be pro-Israel in that sense.

Are you serious?

 

[a_unique_person]

I just had a thought. I could be totally wrong here, so don't hold me to it. But Abdul's claim that "Maybe it's because the default opposite position is the extermination of members of my ethnic group" appears to be the necessary level of paranoia to justify the illegal activities of Israel such as Apartheid. That is, most people, including Israeli's, would agree that Apartheid is wrong. Israel practices Apartheid. To justify this behaviour, one has to fervently believe that the next Holocaust is quite literally just around the corner. For that to be so, there would have to be a lot of people out there, not just in the local area of Israel, who want all Jews killed.

The author of the article seems to have that level of paranoia. Israel is not surrounded by enemies, for example. Jordan and Egypt have peace treaties with Israel. The majority of Lebanese seem to be supporters of Israel, despite the disastrous recent war that saw much of Lebanon's infrastructure flattened. Syria seems to be prepared to talk to Israel. Despite the many criticisms of Israel from various countries for necessary actions undertaken by Israel to enforce Apartheid, none of those countries actually wants Israel destroyed or it's population killed. Yet the author talks as if everyone is full of hatred to such an extent that it is indistinguishable from full on, Holocaustic, Nazism.

 

[Fiona]

I may be completely wrong but it seems to me a lot to do with the fact she is American as well as jewish. From what I have seen on this forum there is a strand in american thinking which holds that there are really people who wish to destroy that country: and this was discussed in the context of the presidential election. Some accused Obama of working for a foreign power and I was told that this is something which is not laughable in the US: though neither is it universal nor anything like it.

It is genuinely hard for me to understand that that can be charged against a person running for high political office but there it is: and the oft repeated parody "why do you hate america" is tapping something of the same attitude, I think. As is Bush's notion that "if you are not for us you are against us" or however that was phrased.

Those sentiments do exist in europe, but not in that form nor with that degree of acceptance: at least that is my impression. I have been interested to find how much anti-semitism is a political issue in the US, at least on the evidence of what I have read here, too. There are anti-semites in the UK, but they are a lunatic fringe and the issue hardly touches mainstream politics at all.

This lady does not seem to be able to distinguish between opposition to what Israel is doing; recognition that the Palestinians have a more than legitimate grievance; and consequent criticism of both Israel and the uncritical support it seems to get from the US: from anti semitism. These two concepts do not begin to touch each other at all where I live. But this seems to be one of those things where underlying assumptions are so strong we cannot imagine the reality of the other point of view. At least it does not seem from the article that she can: and I confess to persistent incredulity where the idea that american political candidates can be suggested to be enemies of the state is mooted. That incredulity convinces me the other stance is also unable to believe what I think of as fairly uncontroversial views. I am not sure we can even communicate in these circumstances though the attempt is interesting

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

... apartheid ...

Liar.

I would still like all you who advocate the destruction of Israel to explain what will happen to the Five Million Jews living there.

Anybody got an answer to this one yet?

 

[ddt]

... apartheid ...

Liar.

Something wrong with your quote function? I only see the word 'apartheid' spelled with a capital A in previous posts.

And why liar? Have you read this thread or this thread? You're conspicuously absent there.

I would still like all you who advocate the destruction of Israel to explain what will happen to the Five Million Jews living there.

Anybody got an answer to this one yet?

I think everybody of us "who advocates the destruction of Israel" already answered that question by post #5.

 

[Architect]

From the article:

Excepting a business trip I took to England, Scotland and Ireland in early 2002, I have not been to Europe since 9/11. It's become an unbearable place to be, as the anti-American feelings in light of the Iraq war have mingled with antisemitism to a point where they are indistinguishable, the new phobias of the First World

1. How would you know that it's unbearable, if you've not been there?

Hamas and Hezbollah are thought by the French and British to be social welfare organisations, and Israel is viewed as a terrorist state.

2. That's certainly not how they're made out in the UK media which - I'm sure the other Brits will agree - seems to rest under no illusions about their less than savoury activities.

As it is my good fortune to be American...

3. Just a minute, I've a flag to wave here somewhere.......

I live in the only country that as a matter of policy is pro-Israel regardless of party allegiance;

4. And apparently regardless of whether it might, for example, kick the ◊◊◊◊ out of its neighbours or commit any crimes of it's own.

The irony is that I'm reasonably sympathetic to the problem of Hammas lobbing rockets into Israel and the need for a proportionate response. However, like a number of public statements by Jewish organisations across the world, I'm not quite so sure that it gives you an excuse to visit upon others the very kind of treatment you object to being meted upon yourself.....

 

[Abdul Alhazred]

Anyone who says Israel is guilty of apartheid (that includes Jimmy Carter), is promoting Judenrein Palestine. Some lies are primarily loyalty tests.

It would be easier for decent people to criticize Israel legitimately, if it were not for the "Death to the Jews" bunch being so predominant, particularly in Europe. But so it is.

 

[Frank Newgent]

It would be easier for decent people to criticize Israel legitimately, if it were not for the "Death to the Jews" bunch being so predominant, particularly in Europe. But so it is.

All just a ploy to ensure that the price of a cemetary space remains high.