Some thoughts about the Mohammed Cartoons

[Sunni Man]

If all hadith are based on the Quran, why the differences in what is accepted between Sunni and Shia?

The rift between Sunni and Shia was origionally political.
A division between two camps over who was going to lead after the death of the Prophet.

Both believe in the Quran exactly as written.

But the Hadith, which is made from thousands of sayings of Muhammad.
Was cherry picked, mainly by the Shia, to support their version of Islam.
Which in turn, supported their political claim to religious rule.

Hope this helps.

 

[Sunni Man]

It seems to me that adults should not react like overgrown children when their feelings are hurt. Children lash out when their feelings are hurt by someone saying mean things. Adults are supposed to be able to act in a more mature manner.

Someone makes fun of you, your religion, or your "prophet" person, and you have no right to do ANYTHING to them in response. Period.

Thank You for the rant and lecture. But honestly, it means nothing to me. Sorry

 

[meg]

Do you believe we should have a right to free speech here, Sunni Man?

 

[fuelair]

That's good information for everyone to know.

I will file it under, "I could care less what you think"!

Mutuality, I assure you.

Go Shia!!! Convert each other!!

 

[Frozenwolf150]

I was joking, meaning to say that I think a lot of the reason why Islam in the middle east is so violent and oppressive, is because the people lead miserable lives. Radical Islam is spreading out into the countries with the poorest inhabitants with the lowest quality of life. More moderate Islam tends to be seen in the US and UK where people tend to be fatter and happier. I agree that the entire thing is a crock however, just like every other major religion.

The interesting thing though is that poverty or lack of education do not seem to be the common threads. The religion itself is. There are plenty of places around the world that are poorer, less educated, and have more reason to hate the west than the nations where radical Islam is prevalent. Yet they haven't gotten up and killed people the way Islamic terrorists have. Remember that bin Laden is a multi-millionaire and received higher education, and the 9/11 hijackers were middle class and fairly well educated themselves.

That's good information for everyone to know.

I will file it under, "I could care less what you think"!

So you mean to say that you DO care? The actual phrase is, "I couldn't care less," if you're trying to say you don't care.

No, a "real" man would take action in defence of the wronged.

Not sit there and draw pictures or make up jokes!

So a violent psychopath who straps on a bomb and blows up the offending cartoonist (and innocent bystanders) is a "real man," as opposed to someone who responds in a civilized manner to an expression of free speech that never really hurt anyone? Right, gotcha.

If you ask me, I think the violence is just a way of overcompensating.

Satirize anything you want. Just not the Prophet of Islam.

Too late, we already have. Besides, that's special pleading.

 

[fuelair]

We aren't being dictated to at all.

We just have a moral and religious framework that we live and work in.

I recognize it's religious aspects, I find no morality in it. YMMD

 

[Sunni Man]

I would be interested in your take on the whole cartoon fiasco. If I read your previous posts correctly, you are a white man, raised in the US, formerly christian who has now converted to Islam. Is that correct?

Yes what you said is correct.

About the cartoon:

People in the West see it and think, "oh it's just a cartoon". We are very jaded in the west and nothing is sacred or given honor anymore.

When the cartoon was published it was absolutely one of the most terrible things imaginable to the Muslim friends I know.

My father-in-law became physically ill when he saw it in the news. And my mother-in-law just heard about the cartoon, and stayed in bed all day from grief.

I tell you this, just to show the depth of emotion the cartoon elicited from just plain, everyday, average Muslims.

In my opinion, the cartoon was published by right wing Danish people, who are anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim. They wanted to create a violent response to help elect their right wing fascist politicians

 

[~enigma~]

Yes what you said is correct.

About the cartoon:

People in the West see it and think, "oh it's just a cartoon". We are very jaded in the west and nothing is sacred or given honor anymore.

When the cartoon was published it was absolutely one of the most terrible things imaginable to the Muslim friends I know.

My father-in-law became physically ill when he saw it in the news. And my mother-in-law just heard about the cartoon, and stayed in bed all day from grief.

I tell you this, just to show the depth of emotion the cartoon elicited from just plain, everyday, average Muslims.

In my opinion, the cartoon was published by right wing Danish people, who are anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim. They wanted to create a violent response to help elect their right wing fascist politicians

I am not right wing nor Danish...

 

[meg]

In my opinion, the cartoon was published by right wing Danish people, who are anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim. They wanted to create a violent response to help elect their right wing fascist politicians

I really don't understand this line of thinking. The danish wanted the muslims to become violent, so the muslims became violent? Are they/you really so easily manipulated?

Or could it just be a case of blaming the victim there?

 

[~enigma~]

Just in case SM thinks i am being anti-muslim...

 

[Magenta]

In my opinion, the cartoon was published by right wing Danish people, who are anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim. They wanted to create a violent response to help elect their right wing fascist politicians

From memory, weren't the cartoons originally published in some obscure Danish newspaper that no one outside Denmark would ever have heard of? Then they were republished (and added to) and publicised by Muslims?

 

[Sunni Man]

Do you believe we should have a right to free speech here, Sunni Man?

From what I understand, the Founding Fathers instituted free speech so that the average person could criticize the government and not be arrested.

But in our modern day secular society. Free of speech has come to protect porno movies, XXX language, and every kind of slanderous speech and immoral
behavior imaginable.

Yes, I believe in Free speech, but within boundries.

 

[meg]

Also, Sunni Man, if you don't mind my asking, when you said in another thread that you come from "Wahabbi school of Islamic thought, what do you mean by that?

I have been looking that up, and I am only finding references like this:

From wikipedia:

The term "Wahhabi" (Wahhābīya) was first used by opponents of ibn Abdul Wahhab and is considered derogatory and rarely used by the people it is used to describe, who prefer to be called "unitarians" (Muwahiddun). [7] [8] The terms "Wahhabism" and "Salafism" are often used interchangeably, but Wahhabism has also been called "a particular orientation within Salafism," [9] an orientation some consider ultra-conservative.

and from here: http://muslimmatters.org/2007/04/01/the-wahhabi-myth-debunking-the-bogeyman/

Almost always the term “Wahhabi” is used in a pejorative sense. It is usually intended as a slur. Many times, when Muslims feel uncomfortable with the practice of other Muslims, many times when they feel that someone is more religious than he should be, and for neo-cons, whoever practices basic Islam, is called a Wahhabi.

 

[Sunni Man]

I am not right wing nor Danish...

[qimg]http://www.skierpage.com/images/mohammed_cartoon.jpg[/qimg]

No, just idiotic.

 

[~enigma~]

No, just idiotic.

Are you gonna behead me now?

ETA - Almost forgot...

 

[gtc]

Satirize anything you want. Just not the Prophet of Islam.

Why? No one has explained to me why Muslims get so worked up about this.

Yes what you said is correct.

About the cartoon:

People in the West see it and think, "oh it's just a cartoon". We are very jaded in the west and nothing is sacred or given honor anymore.

When the cartoon was published it was absolutely one of the most terrible things imaginable to the Muslim friends I know.

My father-in-law became physically ill when he saw it in the news. And my mother-in-law just heard about the cartoon, and stayed in bed all day from grief.

Why? Were they even aware about what the cartoons showed? Did they see the cartoons to work out what was upsetting about them? Have you seen the cartoons or do you know what was in them?

In my opinion, the cartoon was published by right wing Danish people, who are anti-immigrant and anti-Muslim. They wanted to create a violent response to help elect their right wing fascist politicians

If that is true, surely the dumbest thing that Muslims could have done was to react violently?

If Allah is all powerful, why doesn't he strike down the cartoonists himself? Why does he need people to do his work for him? Its as if he doesn't exist at all.

 

[~enigma~]

Also, Sunni Man, if you don't mind my asking, when you said in another thread that you come from "Wahabbi school of Islamic thought, what do you mean by that?

I have been looking that up, and I am only finding references like this:

From wikipedia:


and from here: http://muslimmatters.org/2007/04/01/the-wahhabi-myth-debunking-the-bogeyman/

Means he is probably a follower of Osama Bin Ladin (unless he's dead) and the Al-Qaeda crew.

 

[Magenta]

But in our modern day secular society. Free of speech has come to protect porno movies, XXX language, and every kind of slanderous speech and immoral
behavior imaginable.

Yes, I believe in Free speech, but within boundries.

What sort of boundaries? No one as the right not to be offended.

 

[Sunni Man]

I really don't understand this line of thinking. The danish wanted the muslims to become violent, so the muslims became violent? Are they/you really so easily manipulated?

Gather a dozen KKK in Mobile, Alabama.
Have them start shouting the "N" word.
Would the violent outcome be predictable?

 

[~enigma~]

What sort of boundaries? No one as the right not to be offended.

It's obvious isn't it. Make fun of everyone and every religion exept Islam and Mohammed.

[insert cartoon here]