Merged So there was melted steel

[Andy_Ross]

How do you know sny of it came from the towers, it's whole provenance needs to be looked at.

Where is the chemical analysis? Why won't he publish his results and method?

 

[Sunstealer]

It looks more like an aluminium alloy to my eyes. You can see the white dendritic structure and the darker eutectic typical of a cast aluminium alloy.

The problem is with the likes of Steven Jones. They aren't professional metallurgists and therefore have no idea how to go about materials characterization. They've got a 40lb chunk of material and they've taken a slice from it, mounted it and ground and polished to produce a microsection. It may have been etched. I wonder what etch they used if they did. For Al alloys we use HF (Hydrogen Fluoride).

It wouldn't cost much to get a proper analysis with a proper metallurgical report produced. Instead we have to put up with silly slide shows and tiny photographs of who knows what with minimal information dressed up to support a failed narrative.

 

[Criteria]

MicahJava if you really want a greater understanding peruse this and other threads in depth.

If you want to be popular here I suggest you totally capitulate to the lies and bigoted views of those who are currently mocking your sincere efforts at greater understanding.

 

[beachnut]

MicahJava if you really want a greater understanding peruse this and other threads in depth.

If you want to be popular here I suggest you totally capitulate to the lies and bigoted views of those who are currently mocking your sincere efforts at greater understanding.

that is it, your opinion backed with nothing. Cool

Greater understanding - google up 911 truth lies and believing them is the opposite of greater understanding.

Yes, 911 truth followers wish to remain in the fantasy based on delusional opinions from 911 truth "experts", aka Jones, a 911 truth nut.

Yes, 911 truth followers call the truth, "lies and bigoted views", aka knowledge based evidence is called, "lies and bigoted views".

Criteria, you have never presented evidence for your fantasy based truth claims, which all remain the old projected, "lies and bigoted views". Lol< a text book case of projection, unknowing projection, all based on BS


Why can't you produce proof of melted steel? 911 truth implies steel was melted on 911, yet no steel was found to be melted.

Where is your greater understanding while believing liars from 911 truth.

911 truth is a faith based failed opinion used as evidence BS fest of woo. It takes zero effort to realize 911 truth has no evidence, and never will. We all were exposed to the efforts of teachers in the first grade and grade school teaching us cause and effect, which is enough of a tool to see 911 truth is BS. Why did the teaching of cause and effect not take hold in 911 truth believers of woo?
I remember teaching cause and effect to first graders;;; i guess 911 truth followers were the kids staring into space... yes, I know, one of those kids might be a pilot who is practicing listening to the teacher and looking out for traffic... that was me once upon a time... Thus the fringe few who fall for 911 truth claims might be a subset of those who are staring out the windows when being taught cause and effect.
I was impressed with a few of the kids who could teach me cause and effect, yet 911 truth followers can't save themselves by thinking for themselves?
Why are 911 truth followers gullible?

 

[jaydeehess]

Yes in this thread I won't even contend there was no molten steel. I will do this so that I can finally get some answers as to how the presence of it means anything malicious.

As such I would like to know:

Is this supposed to mean thermite was used? If so how much thermite (a self oxidizing agent) is needed to still be reacting six weeks after initiation? Why are other avenues of steel melting (such as in a rare natural furnace effect) dismissed? Since liquids follow the path of least resistance they will pool at the bottom of the bathtub. How was the steel that solidified there removed and where did it go?

[qimg]https://i.imgur.com/i18BgPT.jpg[/qimg] [qimg]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-_Cwoa0aHQWE/TmH-4GxnGRI/AAAAAAAAAbs/CooHfDT_FaM/s1600/iron.jpg[/qimg]

I never saw what was wrong with the fudge brownie. It came from a museum and Steven Jones said he tested a chunk of it and it was iron. Although, of course, the results haven't been published or confirmed by anyone else.

Getting back to the topic of the OP.
OK MichJava, as in the OP let's grant your premise: its iron, and its "previously molten" (a misnomer because all steel was previously molten, and before that it was ore from a mine).

Now...Above I hilited the questions Travis asked.
Apparently the first question is answered "because there are traces of other elements that could have come from thermite". Not exactly a slam dunk there, as the towers, and especially the mixture of substances in the hot rubble, contained just about anything you'd like to mention.

Second question: Never, ever, been answered by anyone. HOW much thermite is required to keep steel molten for days/weeks/months?

Third question is one of my favs. I have pointed out many times that molten steel/iron has been reported in many other non-WTC , non-9/11 fires in the past. There are two ways those reports can go: either they are correct and there was molten steel/iron in those other innocuous fires,,, or they are incorrect and there wasn't.
-If there was molten steel in those other fires then its not unusual for there to have been molten steel in the WTC rubble fires either.
-If there was no molten steel in those other fires,, if the reports are in error,, it simply illustrates the prevalence of such erroneous reports and thus the insignificance of such reports wrt 9/11.

Last question: never answered by anyone. Instead they show a few blocks of disputably solidified iron, at best about the size of a person. (at least one of which has paper embedded in it ) We are told there were lakes and rivers of molten steel. Where'd it go, how'd it get removed?

 

[jaydeehess]

MicahJava if you really want a greater understanding peruse this and other threads in depth.

If you want to be popular here I suggest you totally capitulate to the lies and bigoted views of those who are currently mocking your sincere efforts at greater understanding.

No one is asking for "capitulation" in this thread. Read the OP (I copied it in my previous post above) Just answer the questions, pretty please.

 

[DGM]

Is it this?

http://serc.carleton.edu/research_education/geochemsheets/techniques/SEM.html

What is Scanning Electron Microscopy (SEM)

The scanning electron microscope (SEM) uses a focused beam of high-energy electrons to generate a variety of signals at the surface of solid specimens. The signals that derive from electron-sample interactions reveal information about the sample including external morphology (texture), chemical composition, and crystalline structure and orientation of materials making up the sample.

I'm not sure where you are going with that link (and quote).

I stated you can't determine the material though SEM alone. You are believing in the expertise of Steven Jones to interpret and prepare the sample.

You stated his results have not been confirmed and he is a known conspiracy theorist. What weight do you put on his opinion and why?

 

[AZCat]

It's apparently made of Iron with trace amounts of Aluminum, Manganese, Sulfur, and Fluorine, which can all be ingredients of thermitic materials. If it's previously molten iron, then that especially interesting because modern buildings don't use regular iron anymore.

They don't? What kind of iron do they use?

 

[cantonear1968]

They don't? What kind of iron do they use?

 

[MicahJava]

Someone sent a small piece of the chunk to a noted 9/11 CTist and thermite-believer? Sounds like a rigorous scientific approach, so I'm convinced.

There's jumping to conclusions and then there's falsifying data and lying. Considering that Steven Jones has no personal website, no Youtube channel, and everything he ever wrote about 9/11 is free on the internet, he would seem like the worst hoaxer in the world. Do you have any evidence that he is a full-on hoaxer?

 

[GlennB]

There's jumping to conclusions and then there's falsifying data and lying. Considering that Steven Jones has no personal website, no Youtube channel, and everything he ever wrote about 9/11 is free on the internet, he would seem like the worst hoaxer in the world. Do you have any evidence that he is a full-on hoaxer?

Deluded would be a better word, and unable to let go of his delusions so he - and other Truthers - simply add layers of delusion when their 'findings' are exposed as nonsense.

But in this case it might well be possible that he was sent a piece of iron. But he was sent a small piece of non-homogenous material by someone who chose Jones as the recipient. This tells us that the sender had an agenda, otherwise why not present the whole thing to an appropriate laboratory?

 

[MicahJava]

Deluded would be a better word, and unable to let go of his delusions so he - and other Truthers - simply add layers of delusion when their 'findings' are exposed as nonsense.

But in this case it might well be possible that he was sent a piece of iron. But he was sent a small piece of non-homogenous material by someone who chose Jones as the recipient. This tells us that the sender had an agenda, otherwise why not present the whole thing to an appropriate laboratory?

Don't hate the player, hate the game. Iron is iron. Not many people would care to spend money on even a simple lab test.

 

[MicahJava]

MicahJava if you really want a greater understanding peruse this and other threads in depth.

If you want to be popular here I suggest you totally capitulate to the lies and bigoted views of those who are currently mocking your sincere efforts at greater understanding.

Thank you, Criteria.

 

[GlennB]

Don't hate the player, hate the game. Iron is iron. Not many people would care to spend money on even a simple lab test.

Jones identified it as iron, and that's seen as significant in your eyes. Why ask Jones, when iron is trivially easy to identify even at home (though a lab's answer would carry more weight).

Your act of innocence regarding 9/11 "Truth" is paper-thin.

 

[kookbreaker]

Jones also once identified a piece of concrete that had colored rust from expsoure as a piece of 'former molten steel'.

The piece in question had pieces of rebar and paper sticking out of it.

 

[Dave Rogers]

Consider your question answered Dave!

Interesting stuff, and thanks for posting it. Now, is there any evidence that any British incendiaries used thermite? We now know that it was used as a starter in German incendiaries, but I suspect very few of the bombs that fell on Dresden in 1945 were German.

Dave

 

[Dave Rogers]

There's jumping to conclusions and then there's falsifying data and lying. Considering that Steven Jones has no personal website, no Youtube channel, and everything he ever wrote about 9/11 is free on the internet, he would seem like the worst hoaxer in the world. Do you have any evidence that he is a full-on hoaxer?

There's plenty of evidence in Jones's own writings that he freely mixes "molten metal" and "molten iron" as descriptions of what was present in the rubble pile, and that he takes evidence of molten metal and addresses it as if it were molten iron. As a physics professor, he doesn't get to claim that he doesn't know any better. I have no idea why he wants to play fast and loose with the truth, but it's beyond reasonable doubt that he does.

Dave

 

[Oystein]

It is also telling how his 9/11 thermite changed over time.

• In the 2006 AE911T slide show linked upthread, he points to fluorine, potassium and manganese as the tell-tale elements, claiming (falsely) that these are "often" part of thermite (potassium permanganate, while being a common oxidizer in many pyrotechnics, is not an ingredient of any thermite, as thermite is defined as a metal with a metal oxide as oxidizer, which KMnxOy isn't; fluorized polymers are not "often" ingredients to a sol-gel process; Jones knows of exactly one lab team that has reported on this)
• In 2007, he focused on sulfur as the tell-tale element, as it appears in thermate. Barium does, too, and more prominently, which he conveniently ignores.
• In the seminal 2009 Bentham paper (Harrit et al), sulfur is suddenly declared contamination, and K, F and Mn ignored. Instead, he now declares that silicon and calcium are typical for commercial thermite.

We thus learn that in the world of Professor Steven E. Jones, PhD, the presence of any chemical element, as well as its absence, can be proof of thermite.

 

[beachnut]

There's jumping to conclusions and then there's falsifying data and lying. Considering that Steven Jones has no personal website, no Youtube channel, and everything he ever wrote about 9/11 is free on the internet, he would seem like the worst hoaxer in the world. Do you have any evidence that he is a full-on hoaxer?

He has proof Christ walked in the New World; thus Jones is the expert for all time...

But Jones lies about 911 and thermite, thus Jesus would be upset with the liar Jones.

Jones is a full blown nut on 911, he proved it with his fake thermite claims. But go ahead, prove he is not a liar, or nuts on 911. Good luck; he got fired for making up lies about 911.

 

[MetalPig]

Jones also once identified a piece of concrete that had colored rust from expsoure as a piece of 'former molten steel'.

The piece in question had pieces of rebar and paper sticking out of it.

Obviously, the molten steel was delivered to the site in paper bags.