Merged So there was melted steel

[jaydeehess]

There's no evidence that it's not. Why would you doubt it?

There is little evidence that it is, why would you not doubt it? According to general knowledge such fires cannot get hot enough to melt steel and yet reports of molten steel are common in many large fires. If the science is right then the reports are highly doubtful. If the science is wrong, then the reports may be right but mean nothing of particular relevance to the subject of the collapses.

Indeed. Why do you guys keep denying there was melted steel? What's it to you?

I have never denied its existance. I simply say that there is very little evidence to go on to say it did exist and just as much to indicate that if it did that its not unusual.

 

[jaydeehess]

Lol. We were done a long time ago.

yes the 9/11 truth movement was done a decade ago.

 

[tsig]

The fact that the technology did and does not exist doesn't seem to worry the truthers in their fantasy bubble.

It's that secret miltech that they got by reverse engineering the aliens flying saucers from Roswell.

 

[Dcdrac]

I ask again what does some kind of molten metal being present prove???

At present it strikes me as totally irrelevent.

 

[ergo]

fires cannot get hot enough to melt steel

.... if it did that its not unusual.

Thanks.

This is the essence of the bedunker argument.

 

[thedopefishlives]

How what works? I don't need to prove anything.

This is the essence of the Truther argument.

 

[jaydeehess]

Thanks.

This is the essence of the bedunker argument.

thanks for illustrating that parsing is an integral part of the truther arguement. A fine job.

 

[jaydeehess]

There is little evidence that it is, why would you not doubt it? According to general knowledge such fires cannot get hot enough to melt steel and yet reports of molten steel are common in many large fires. If the science is right then the reports are highly doubtful. If the science is wrong, then the reports may be right but mean nothing of particular relevance to the subject of the collapses.

.

I illustrated why I would doubt it and asked you why, given these reasons (listed after the hilited part above), why you would choose not to doubt it.
I note you danced away from the question.

 

[twinstead]

How what works? I don't need to prove anything.

And this is why nobody will ever really take you and your 'inside job' seriously

 

[twinstead]

Indeed. Why do you guys keep denying there was melted steel? What's it to you?

I don't deny there was melted steel. Even if some of us are, you can safely ignore them now and address the ones are aren't denying melted anything and answer the fundamental question--the one that should have ended this thread on the second post: IF THERE WAS MELTED STEEL, WHAT WOULD IT PROVE?

All you're doing is artificially propagating this debate by insinuating that melted steel has some kind of meaning without actually saying it, then offering evidence that it existed as if it matters, then claiming we are all denying the evidence of melted steel, and then you muse as to why we claim you really have no evidence of melted steel when you feel you do when IT DOESN'T MATTER IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Like I said. Playing games. Why do you keep insisting there was melted steel? What's it to you?

 

[DGM]

When you start answering my questions.

I have always answered your questions. You always have more and never answer mine (you know I can prove this).

I'm a patient person and I believe the only question I have not answered in depth is:

You still haven't explained why you think it's unlikely.

It's really simple. Molten steel in really stupid hot.

As you know, I do wrought iron work and volunteer at the Saugus Iron Works. I know a bit about molten metals. If someone was close enough to witness "rivers of molten steel", that would not be how they would describe it. It would be more like "WTF....burn my ass............get the F...away.....WTF...........WTF". It really is a burn your face off thing to see. Add to that, anything that has any moisture in it that encounters this "river" explodes. A "river of molten steel" would be a blinding bright, burning everything it encounters with sparks and fire. I doubt you could actually see the liquid itself in anything but a perfectly clean environment.

Add to that the fact there has been no physical evidence, leaves me skeptical.

Now it's your turn to answer mine.

 

[NoahFence]

Thanks.

This is the essence of the bedunker argument.

Quote mine much???

 

[NoahFence]

I have always answered your questions. You always have more and never answer mine (you know I can prove this).

I'm a patient person and I believe the only question I have not answered in depth is:



It's really simple. Molten steel in really stupid hot.

As you know, I do wrought iron work and volunteer at the Saugus Iron Works. I know a bit about molten metals. If someone was close enough to witness "rivers of molten steel", that would not be how they would describe it. It would be more like "WTF....burn my ass............get the F...away.....WTF...........WTF". It really is a burn your face off thing to see. Add to that, anything that has any moisture in it that encounters this "river" explodes. A "river of molten steel" would be a blinding bright, burning everything it encounters with sparks and fire. I doubt you could actually see the liquid itself in anything but a perfectly clean environment.

Add to that the fact there has been no physical evidence, leaves me skeptical.

Now it's your turn to answer mine.

Couple of years ago:

Dozens of workers at a Braintree foundry scrambled for the exits yesterday after a thunderous explosion near a furnace shook the factory and filled it with smoke and dust.


"You couldn't see," said an employee who was standing about 50 feet away from the furnace when the blast occurred at 11:40 a.m. inside Wollaston Alloys on Wood Road. "You were trying to breathe, but you couldn't breathe."

Six workers suffered minor injuries, most of them respiratory-related, according to authorities.

Molten metal from a furnace was being poured into a ladle, and some of the metal splashed into cold water in a nearby holding tank, causing the explosion, said Braintree Deputy Fire Chief Fred Thompson.

Small amount of molten metal, small amount of water. Looking out the window of where I worked at the time, I could see the roof lift off of the building because of the explosion. My building shook violently. If molten anything was running around for weeks after 9/11 we'd know about it.


Or at least the 'we' that is interested in honesty and reality. Truthers? Not so much.

 

[dafydd]

oh and so what if someone saw molten metal after a fire in buildings that had a lot of metal in them?

what on earth is that supposed to prove?

Beats me, but I don't live in Twooferland.

 

[dafydd]

How what works? I don't need to prove anything.

Lucky for you.

 

[dafydd]

I don't deny there was melted steel. Even if some of us are, you can safely ignore them now and address the ones are aren't denying melted anything and answer the fundamental question--the one that should have ended this thread on the second post: IF THERE WAS MELTED STEEL, WHAT WOULD IT PROVE?
All you're doing is artificially propagating this debate by insinuating that melted steel has some kind of meaning without actually saying it, then offering evidence that it existed as if it matters, then claiming we are all denying the evidence of melted steel, and then you muse as to why we claim you really have no evidence of melted steel when you feel you do when IT DOESN'T MATTER IN THE FIRST PLACE.

Like I said. Playing games. Why do you keep insisting there was melted steel? What's it to you?

Ergo?

 

[dafydd]

I have always answered your questions. You always have more and never answer mine (you know I can prove this).

I'm a patient person and I believe the only question I have not answered in depth is:



It's really simple. Molten steel in really stupid hot.

As you know, I do wrought iron work and volunteer at the Saugus Iron Works. I know a bit about molten metals. If someone was close enough to witness "rivers of molten steel", that would not be how they would describe it. It would be more like "WTF....burn my ass............get the F...away.....WTF...........WTF". It really is a burn your face off thing to see. Add to that, anything that has any moisture in it that encounters this "river" explodes. A "river of molten steel" would be a blinding bright, burning everything it encounters with sparks and fire. I doubt you could actually see the liquid itself in anything but a perfectly clean environment.

Add to that the fact there has been no physical evidence, leaves me skeptical.

Now it's your turn to answer mine.

Ergo has never been inside a steelworks. I have. You are correct.

 

[jaydeehess]

I illustrated why I would doubt it and asked you why, given these reasons (listed after the hilited part above), why you would choose not to doubt it.
I note you danced away from the question.

Couple of years ago:



Small amount of molten metal, small amount of water. Looking out the window of where I worked at the time, I could see the roof lift off of the building because of the explosion. My building shook violently. If molten anything was running around for weeks after 9/11 we'd know about it.


Or at least the 'we' that is interested in honesty and reality. Truthers? Not so much.

Basically a steam explosion as the hot metal contains enough heat to vaporize the entire body of water in less than a second.
So apparently we have a hot liquid, molten steel, running to a low point in the rubble. Oddly enough we also have thousands of gallons of water being poured on the rubble which one would assume, would also run down to the low points in the rubble. But no steam explosions.
Yet another reason for doubt.

 

[Justin39640]

I'm a layperson and I would call it melted aluminum, because it has an obvious aluminum colour and sheen to it. And because I've seen melted aluminum before, like many other laypeople have -- not to mention how many firefighters and ironworkers have as well. Duh.

When it comes to working extensively with metals of all types, I am NOT a layperson. On many occasion I have to take a magnet to things to tell if they're steel or not. In fact, when you go to recyclers (of metals) the people who will take and weigh your materials ALL have magnets on them to help verify what's what.

The only reason you knew that was aluminum was because someone told you it was.

 

[Justin39640]

You still haven't explained why you think it's unlikely.

When you melt steel then take away the heat (like running down a channel), it solidifies very quickly. When they pour steel they have to work extremely fast because of this. If anyone seen steel flowing and not leaving giant pieces of slag everywhere would have to be standing in an environment of a few thousand degrees. They'd be dead or covered in 3rd degree burns.

That's why I find it unlikely.