Merged So there was melted steel

[Redwood]

Am I the only one who has ever wondered why the first person to see these massive flowing rivers of molten steel/iron didn't exclaim to his thousands of co-workers, "Hey, Joe! Hey, Vinnie! Get over here and look at this! Quick, someone get a camera!"

Instead, he kept it secret and crawled on his belly to Major Strasser, Gestapo chief in charge of the cleanup, and begged permission to tell the world, and was beaten up by goons and told to keep his mouth shut?

 

[ergo]

Am I the only one who has ever wondered why the first person to see these massive flowing rivers of molten steel/iron didn't exclaim to his thousands of co-workers, "Hey, Joe! Hey, Vinnie! Get over here and look at this! Quick, someone get a camera!"

Is there something you don't believe about what has been documented? What causes you not to believe the testimony of people who were there?

With all this testimony, why indeed don't we have pictures? Why were photographers shooed away from Ground Zero? Why don't we have pictures of the south side of WTC 7 fully engulfed in flames for that matter? No one took a picture of that?

Why do you think Leslie Robertson would deny ever having mentioned molten steel, when he was already on record doing so? Don't you think that's kind of weird?

Why would you doubt there was melted steel?

 

[1337m4n]

This, like many other proofs that 9/11 was an inside job, has not been covered up. It's been ignored by the MSM.

Bold claim, that.

Humor me for a second. I've suffered some head injuries in my time, see. Maybe I can't see the connections that your gifted mind clearly can. Let's say for the sake of argument there was molten steel. Tell me this.

How does "molten steel" prove "inside job"?



ergo, did you play the molten metal identification challenge? It's lots of fun.

 

[GlennB]

Why would you doubt there was melted steel?

Lack of a heat source to keep it liquid for the weeks it took to find it. Even if the debris pile was running at a general 500°C, that's ~1000° cooler than the melting point. And, naturally, by the time people were investigating those locations the general temperature had to be much cooler than that.

Oh, and lack of a heat source hot enough to do the melting in the first place, but here I'm looking at it from a 'thermite believer' pov. Even if you believe in that stuff you have no business believing in might still be liquid weeks later.

 

[ozeco41]

Lack of a heat source to keep it liquid for the weeks it took to find it. Even if the debris pile was running at a general 500°C, that's ~1000° cooler than the melting point. And, naturally, by the time people were investigating those locations the general temperature had to be much cooler than that.

Oh, and lack of a heat source hot enough to do the melting in the first place, but here I'm looking at it from a 'thermite believer' pov. Even if you believe in that stuff you have no business believing in might still be liquid weeks later.

Plus the utter stupidity of the idea that it came from CD as a result of "thermXte in the impact zone".

I often parodied it back on the RichardDawkinsNet forum circa 2007-8-9.

It needs suicide teams of dreadnought fireproof suited workers arriving invisibly at the impact and fire zone after the plane has struck and whilst fires are raging. And they do that without being seen by the office occupants - esp those with cell phones.

They have to do it after impact so they know where to put the devices.

They need to place thermXte containers around all the columns which are to be cut. Plus ceramic troughing to capture the molten steel and take it to the discharge point. Plus all the supports for the troughing so that a suitable falling gradient is maintained.

And all of that has to be performed within the fires of one of the biggest office fires on record. By people who throughout the length of the operation know they are going to die. Then the equipment has to vanish itself. The volunteers by definition being no longer available to remove it after the collapse.

And that is only the first quarter of the issues these genii overcame. And all the details of the operation esp the logistic and security aspects lost to history because no truther has ever explained how they did it.

The engineering technical aspects are easily defined. The possibility of it happening is a different question. Given the pseudo scientific method we wrongly apply to these discussions I will avoid the word "impossible" and allow "extremely unlikely". And patiently wait for some "pro thermXte truther" to explain how.

I am not holding my breath. .

 

[Orphia Nay]

Since when does therm*te burn for weeks and not in a flash?

 

[brazenlilraisin]

Since they need it to.

 

[Richard the G]

I saw lots of molten steel when I was helping with the clear up and I think most people did!

I believe there was tens of tons of thermic lances used to cut up the sections by locally melting the steel.

I think there was also evidence of the steel floor mesh, filing cabinets and ceilings melting and being absorbed by the ash, dust around it. If you imagine the fires in the pile were acting as a furnace, because they were well insulated and ventilated and had lots to burn.

However there was no evidence of substantial steel sections melting and reforming. The furnace effects were local and intense

Of course I expect ae911truth would just stop at the first part of my story and latch onto that statement. As they have done with there snippets from Les Robertson and many others.

 

[dafydd]

Something else must have had the capability to liquefy steel until it was depleted.

An energy beam weapon?

 

[Andy_Ross]

I think there was also evidence of the steel floor mesh, filing cabinets and ceilings melting and being absorbed by the ash, dust around it. If you imagine the fires in the pile were acting as a furnace, because they were well insulated and ventilated and had lots to burn.

Thin stuff like the sheet used in a filing cabinet or the small cross section of a floor mesh would be more likely to burn than to melt to liquid.

 

[tsig]

Plus the utter stupidity of the idea that it came from CD as a result of "thermXte in the impact zone".

I often parodied it back on the RichardDawkinsNet forum circa 2007-8-9.

It needs suicide teams of dreadnought fireproof suited workers arriving invisibly at the impact and fire zone after the plane has struck and whilst fires are raging. And they do that without being seen by the office occupants - esp those with cell phones.

They have to do it after impact so they know where to put the devices.

They need to place thermXte containers around all the columns which are to be cut. Plus ceramic troughing to capture the molten steel and take it to the discharge point. Plus all the supports for the troughing so that a suitable falling gradient is maintained.

And all of that has to be performed within the fires of one of the biggest office fires on record. By people who throughout the length of the operation know they are going to die. Then the equipment has to vanish itself. The volunteers by definition being no longer available to remove it after the collapse.

And that is only the first quarter of the issues these genii overcame. And all the details of the operation esp the logistic and security aspects lost to history because no truther has ever explained how they did it.

The engineering technical aspects are easily defined. The possibility of it happening is a different question. Given the pseudo scientific method we wrongly apply to these discussions I will avoid the word "impossible" and allow "extremely unlikely". And patiently wait for some "pro thermXte truther" to explain how.

I am not holding my breath. .

If there was enough thermite to bring down the buildings, cause steel to stay liquid for three months plus have enough enreacted chunks left over to be a significant part of the dust, the building must have been full of the stuff to the point of bulging the windows.

 

[ergo]

Lack of a heat source to keep it liquid for the weeks it took to find it. Even if the debris pile was running at a general 500°C, that's ~1000° cooler than the melting point. And, naturally, by the time people were investigating those locations the general temperature had to be much cooler than that.

Oh, and lack of a heat source hot enough to do the melting in the first place, but here I'm looking at it from a 'thermite believer' pov. Even if you believe in that stuff you have no business believing in might still be liquid weeks later.

So, you are not only doubting what the engineers said about the temperatures required to produce the effects they saw on the steel, you are also now doubting the thermal imagery data on the debris pile?

Why would you think you, anonymous internet poster, know more about it than the people who are trained to measure and analyze these things?

 

[000063]

So, you are not only doubting what the engineers said about the temperatures required to produce the effects they saw on the steel, you are also now doubting the thermal imagery data on the debris pile?

Why would you think you, anonymous internet poster, know more about it than the people who are trained to measure and analyze these things?

You're dodging the second point made; even assuming thermite was used, what kept the steel hot for weeks?

 

[ergo]

what kept the steel hot for weeks?

That's one of the first good questions you've asked, 000063.

If the reports from the pile were showing such extreme temperatures, what indeed kept the fires that hot for that long? If you don't believe in the nanothermite hypothesis, what's your explanation? So far it seems to be to doubt the data, then forget about it. That's not science. That's not investigation. That's hillbilly ignorance.

 

[DGM]

Why would you think you, anonymous internet poster, know more about it than the people who are trained to measure and analyze these things?

Are you claiming temperatures high enough to melt steel were recorded or concluded?

Where? (let's watch ergo, dig yet another hole).

 

[ergo]

Are you claiming temperatures high enough to melt steel were recorded or concluded?

Where?

They apparently were. In the testimonials I've posted. And more, if you want.

 

[DGM]

They apparently were. In the testimonials I've posted. And more, if you want.

Do you have the data, or is this an opinion?

There was no physical or measured evidence of temperatures high enough to melt steel. Is this true or false? (I suspect you will dodge this question as usual).

 

[ergo]

Do you have the data, or is this an opinion?

It's in the thermal imagery data already referenced and in the opinion of experts, already referenced. Are you reading these, or are you pretending they're not there?

 

[DGM]

It's in the thermal imagery data already referenced and in the opinion of experts, already referenced. Are you reading these, or are you pretending they're not there?

I'm reading them. Like I said, I have no problem with eyewitness opinion.

So, show us again the data that proves temperatures hot enough to melt steel?

BTW, Why should I really care about this anyway?

 

[000063]

That's one of the first good questions you've asked, 000063.

And alas, you still don't answer.

If the reports from the pile were showing such extreme temperatures, what indeed kept the fires that hot for that long? If you don't believe in the nanothermite hypothesis, what's your explanation? So far it seems to be to doubt the data, then forget about it. That's not science. That's not investigation. That's hillbilly ignorance.

Air did it. Regular ol' air, more or less, provided by the holes in the debris pile, and IIRC the subway tunnel, fueled by all the crap in the two 110 story buildings which collapsed. Nice job trying to reverse the burden of proof. Please provide evidence and a reasoned argument that nanothermite could've had anything to do with fires burning for weeks*.

I've read on this forum that doing so would require sizable amounts of thermite. In fact, much more than would actually be required in the hypothetical Schrodinger's explosives/thermite. Personally, I believe Truther insistence on the fires meaning something - what, exactly, is kinda vague - is just another example of your tendency to hunt for "anomalies", whether they actually support your theory or not.

Do you really want to start a slapfight over who does more "ignoring data"? Because by your own admission, you regularly ignore questions you don't want to answer, that you deem irrelevant or even just silly. In fact, even in the post I'm responding to, you felt the need to cut out the first two-thirds of my sentence, which concern, um, your hypothesis, not mine. You erased it in order to dodge supporting your own point, which is kinda sad, really.

The fire also contradicts the hydraulic jacks that your boy Tony S. claims may have been used. Unless they used Thermite/Nanothermite, explosives, and jacks. This conspiracy just gets more and more complicated.

* Especially in light of the Truther claim that NT burns faster and hotter than regular thermite, meaning there would need to be even more of it than regular thermite to keep the fire going.