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Shutdown 2023

Hercules56 said:
MAGAts wanna burn it down, and the Extreme Leftists want to see it burn so socialism can rise from the ashes.

Its why they oppose compromise and being the adult in the room.

These two groups need to get a hotel.
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Just so you know, this is exactly why people don't like centrists: Their incessant need to "both sides" everything on the planet no matter how asymmetrical it is in reality.
 
"I agree with side X literally about everything and can only speak in their talking points but don't dare call me an X" doesn't make you a Centrist.
 
Hercules56 said:
MAGAts wanna burn it down, and the Extreme Leftists want to see it burn so socialism can rise from the ashes.
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The "Extreme Leftists" that want to "see it burn so socialism can rise from the ashes" may very well exist, but they are nowhere near the levers of power. This is not a symmetrical situation.

Instead the spectre of those left-wing extremists is used to criticize less extreme proposals as if their proponents WERE the extremists. Universal health care, for example. It takes a special kind of imagination that something that's a fixture in dozens of countries is an intentional stepping stone to societal collapse.
 
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gnome said:
The "Extreme Leftists" that want to "see it burn so socialism can rise from the ashes" may very well exist, but they are nowhere near the levers of power. This is not a symmetrical situation.

Instead the spectre of those left-wing extremists is used to criticize less extreme proposals as if their proponents WERE the extremists.
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It's true the extreme right has more power and influence in America than the extreme left.

Right now. Nationally.
 
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Hercules56 said:
It's true the extreme right has more power and influence in America than the extreme left.
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If SCOTUS was legitimately "extreme right" they'd've found some way to pull a reverse Roe, declaring an inalienable right to life for all fetuses, or at least the ones who aren't directly threatening the life of the pregnant person in whom they reside. They would also revive a number of judicial doctrines from the Lochner eraWP.

All that said, I'm wondering how you'd back up your claim that the extreme right has more power than the extreme left. I'm guessing that it has something to do with the outsized power of the so-called Freedom Caucus compared to the relative influence of the House Progressive Caucus which is practically nil right now and wasn't too much greater under Speaker Pelosi.
 
d4m10n said:
If SCOTUS was legitimately "extreme right" they'd've found some way to pull a reverse Roe, declaring an inalienable right to life for all fetuses, or at least the ones who aren't directly threatening the life of the pregnant person in whom they reside. They would also revive a number of judicial doctrines from the Lochner eraWP.

All that said, I'm wondering how you'd back up your claim that the extreme right has more power than the extreme left. I'm guessing that it has something to do with the outsized power of the so-called Freedom Caucus compared to the relative influence of the House Progressive Caucus which is practically nil right now and wasn't too much greater under Speaker Pelosi.
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Yes hardcore right wingers in Congress definitely have more power right now than hardcore left wingers. We also have lots of right-wing legislatures passing very strict abortion laws all over the country, and ridiculous constitutional carry laws.
 
WAPO reports at attempt will be made next week to dethrone McCarthy by ultra hardliners. and put some congressman called Emmons (from Minnesota) in his place.
This is crazy. It might just be gossip, but I don't see how the whll most House GOpers will go along with replacing McCarthy with somebody who most people have never heard of.You can't beat somebody with nobody, as the saying goes.
But it does show how disfuntional the house has become.
 
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dudalb said:
WAPO reports at attempt will be made next week to dethrone McCarthy by ultra hardliners. and put some congressman called Emmons (from Minnesota) who almost nobody has heard of in his place.
This is crazy. It might just be gossip, but I don't see how the whll most House GOpers will go along with replacing McCarthy with a complete unknown.You can't beat somebody with nobody, as the saying goes.
But it does show how disfuntional the house has become.
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Good, good, very good. GOP chaos can only be good for the Dems next year. Im praying for a bipartisan deal that drives the Patriot Caucus nuts.
 
dudalb said:
WAPO reports at attempt will be made next week to dethrone McCarthy by ultra hardliners. and put some congressman called Emmons (from Minnesota) in his place.
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It's going to be a long one, I think.

I would be happy to be wrong, but this may drag on some time.:confused::(
 
The Great Zaganza said:
what incentive does someone have to work below subsistence wage if they are not currently starving?
Clearly, too many food stamps means not enough people desperate to work for a pittance.
How is a CEO supposed to make his bonus under these conditions ???
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The tightening of the labor market that happened after Covid really put this into stark relief. Desperation of the working class is the engine that drives our society. When the labor market tightened up workers got a tiny amount of agency about the type of work they might prefer and the elites in this country threw a tantrum, spilling untold digital ink about how "nobody wants to work anymore" or "quiet quitting" and blah blah blah.

Workers traded up to slightly better jobs and suddenly the worst employers realized that they could no longer reliably staff their businesses with poverty wages and they blew a gasket.
 
TurkeysGhost said:
The tightening of the labor market that happened after Covid really put this into stark relief. Desperation of the working class is the engine that drives our society. When the labor market tightened up workers got a tiny amount of agency about the type of work they might prefer and the elites in this country threw a tantrum, spilling untold digital ink about how "nobody wants to work anymore" or "quiet quitting" and blah blah blah.

Workers traded up to slightly better jobs and suddenly the worst employers realized that they could no longer reliably staff their businesses with poverty wages and they blew a gasket.
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Marx was very clear on the need of a "reserve army of the unemployed" . Which is why he considered them to be part of the work force.
 
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Hercules56 said:
Marx was also a rabid anti-Semite, so I take a lot of his theories with a big grain of salt.
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because you are unfamiliar with them.

and, btw, you would be very hard-pressed to find someone devoid of anti-semitism in his day&age.

I assume you also reject everything any founder of the Constitution has done, because they had slaves?
 
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I Am The Scum said:
This also reminds me of another reason people don't like centrists: Their habit of thoughtlessly regurgitating idiotic right-wing talking points.
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Based on some of his comments my response seems to be accurate.

There is a long and sad history of left wingers hating moderates and centrists. Just look at Stalin's rejection of the Communists working with the social Democrats to stop Hitler in 1933.

We all know how that turned out.
 
Hercules56 said:
Based on some of his comments my response seems to be accurate.

There is a long and sad history of left wingers hating moderates and centrists. Just look at Stalin's rejection of the Communists working with the social Democrats to stop Hitler in 1933.

We all know how that turned out.
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The fact that the two main centrists in this thread view the two parties as Stalin and Hitler says more about their perception than it does about our political reality.
 
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