Should New Zealand Change its flag?

[Nessie]

shouldn't it have a Hobbit on it??

No that's daft. It should be Gandalf.

 

[Porpoise of Life]

In Scotland it would not be considered wise to depict a sheep on our flag, and especially an upside down sheep. The reasons for this attitude are too complex to elaborate upon.

Already taken by Wales?

 

[davefoc]

I voted yes.

I have no stake in this. I don't know about any of the history. I don't know anything about the possible alternatives. But I came up with an opinion.

As an American, I have never quite gotten this idea that the British monarch is the head of state of the former colonies. It seems a bit silly to me and eliminating the reference to the UK from the flag seems like it might be a good idea that reflects reality.

On the other hand, maybe the NZers have a strong attraction to the history of the flag and a lot of good feelings about their old colonial overlords so maybe they should keep it if that's how they feel.

I don't get this attraction to a fern. I suppose you'd have to be there but it sounds a bit bland. How about putting some kiwis on the flag? Are there any countries that have a fruit on their flag right now? The other idea I had was some kind of Maori design. That sounds like it might be the best looking, but I suppose that relations between the Maori and non Maori populations are in a place where that idea would fly.

 

[Madalch]

Change it. Blue ensigns and red ensigns are appropriate for colonies (but only just- they were meant as naval flags. As one of the Georges said when seeing Canada's red ensign flying from parliament- "I see the flag, but where the hell's the ship?").

The fern's a fine emblem, as long as the flag designers aren't stupid enough to scrawl "NEW ZEALAND" underneath it. A flag should have a simple symbol, not words, and no clutter.

 

[PhantomWolf]

As an American, I have never quite gotten this idea that the British monarch is the head of state of the former colonies. It seems a bit silly to me and eliminating the reference to the UK from the flag seems like it might be a good idea that reflects reality

The British Monarch isn't our Head of State, our Head of State is the Queen of New Zealand, just as Australia's Head of State is the Queen of Australia and Canada's is the Queen of Canada. It just happens that at the current point in time we have decided that the person that holds the position of Queen of England would make a good person to hold the position as Queen of New Zealand too.

 

[Ladewig]

I don't get this attraction to a fern. I suppose you'd have to be there but it sounds a bit bland. How about putting some kiwis on the flag? Are there any countries that have a fruit on their flag right now?

I think when the New Zealanders talk about kiwis being their national emblem, they are talking about the bird and not the fruit.

 

[KatieG]

Arrr, maties! Hoist the Jolly Fern!

I really did LOL!

 

[Craig B]

The harp is supposed to represent Ireland, but for many people it just looks like the trademark for Guinness.

These "many people" either overestimate the antiquity of their favourite tipple, or have been drinking too much of it!

The coat of arms of Ireland is blazoned as Azure a harp Or, stringed Argent (a gold harp with silver strings on a blue background). These arms have long been Ireland's heraldic emblem. References to them as being the arms of the king of Ireland can be found as early as the 13th century.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Ireland

 

[MG1962]

The fern's a fine emblem, as long as the flag designers aren't stupid enough to scrawl "NEW ZEALAND" underneath it. A flag should have a simple symbol, not words, and no clutter.

I had an American friend ask me once how come the Queen of Canada, Australia and Great Britain where all called Elizabeth. It took me a minute to realise she genuinely didn't know they were all the same person

 

[The Atheist]

Why else do we need a flag other than sports events these days anyway?

Great to see you around!

We need a flag so the Taliban know which guys have the most inadeuate weapons and armour.

And yes it is used in the Maori challenge, ...

Sorry, but that's incorrect. The pouwhiri (welcome) uses a baton adorned with feathers, not a fern leaf. The silver fern is a white design, unlike the koru, which is traditional.

The British Monarch isn't our Head of State, our Head of State is the Queen of New Zealand,....

I'm a hardline anti-monarchist, but I'd rather have the old hag in Buck House and her inbred brood than King Tuheitia and his court jester, Tuku "Red Boxer Shorts" Morgan.

Seriously though you are correct. Is there a specific reason for this current desire to change the flag? Any kind of event that is precipitating it?

Yes, our Prime Minister swinging his dick. Must be a funny contradiction for him; he's a hardline monarchist yet favours dumping the Union Jack.

Appeal to popular votes, I imagine. All those against the idea already vote elsewhere.

Out of curiosity, is there a Maori flag like our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander flags?

Yeees, there is. Here it is: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...tanga_Maori_sovereignty_movement_flag.svg.png

Unfortunately, that flag would never gain the white vote to replace the blue dust-cloth we use right now.

No doubt we'll be presented with some designs drawn by local kindy kids and one of them will win now there are so few WWII vets left alive, because I guarantee they won't be in favour.

 

[angrysoba]

These "many people" either overestimate the antiquity of their favourite tipple, or have been drinking too much of it! http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coat_of_arms_of_Ireland

What is strange is this claim from Guinness^TM:

The harp is also the official national emblem of the Republic of Ireland and can be found on the Republic's coinage. However, there is a difference between the Irish government harp and the Guinness harp. As Guinness had trademarked the harp symbol in 1876, the Irish Free State Government of 1922, had to turn the official government harp the other way to differentiate between the trademarked Guinness harp and the official State emblem. The distinguishing feature between the two harps is that the Guinness Harp always appears with its straight edge (the sound board) to the left, and the government harp is always shown with its straight edge to the right.

Is this true?

Looking at the old Irish coat of arms, and the old Leinster coat of arms and even old royal coats of arms, it appears that the Irish national symbol has always been turned the opposite way to the interloper from Guinness^TM.

 

[elgarak]

No that's daft. It should be Gandalf.

Nonsense.

Either a ring, or a fiery eye.

 

[Samson]

Nonsense.

Either a ring, or a fiery eye.

Remember the fishing trip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxN2Mewamj0

ouch says theagol.

 

[TragicMonkey]

I had an American friend ask me once how come the Queen of Canada, Australia and Great Britain where all called Elizabeth. It took me a minute to realise she genuinely didn't know they were all the same person

They're not. They share one body, but three separate natures. That is the mystery of the Trinity.

 

[Ladewig]

A flag should have a simple symbol, not words, and no clutter.

Agreed

Barbados, Canada, and Isreal are examples of natures with distinctive, uncluttered, easily-recognizable flags.

I like the fern idea.

 

[PhantomWolf]

 

[angrysoba]

distinctive, uncluttered, easily-recognizable flags.

I like the fern idea.

Yeah, you know who else had a "distinctive, uncluttered, easily-recognizable flag"?

The N****! That's who!

You want New Zealand to become the NewZeas?

 

[arthwollipot]

I think when the New Zealanders talk about kiwis being their national emblem, they are talking about the bird and not the fruit.

In fact no-one in the southern hemisphere calls the fruit a "kiwi". It's a "kiwifruit". That's a minor pet peeve of mine. A kiwi is always a bird or colloquially a citizen of New Zealand.

 

[angrysoba]

In fact no-one in the southern hemisphere calls the fruit a "kiwi". It's a "kiwifruit".

Or "Chinese gooseberry".

 

[MG1962]

In fact no-one in the southern hemisphere calls the fruit a "kiwi". It's a "kiwifruit". That's a minor pet peeve of mine. A kiwi is always a bird or colloquially a citizen of New Zealand.

Although it is common to put an expletive at the start when New Zealand snatch another unlikely Bledisloe cup win