Should New Zealand Change its flag?

[PhantomWolf]

Although it is common to put an expletive at the start when New Zealand snatch another unlikely Bledisloe cup win

Considering that since the start Australia has only won 34 of the matches compared to New Zealand's 92 wins, and that Australia has only held the cup 12 times, compared to New Zealand's 42 (23-4 and 10-0 in the past 10 years), I don't think that a New Zealand win between the two countries is actually "unlikely".

 

[MG1962]

Considering that since the start Australia has only won 34 of the matches compared to New Zealand's 92 wins, and that Australia has only held the cup 12 times, compared to New Zealand's 42 (23-4 and 10-0 in the past 10 years), I don't think that a New Zealand win between the two countries is actually "unlikely".

Hence the wink at the end of the statement

 

[The Atheist]

There are some very good entries in the new flag competition at Fark.com, but I won't link it because some of them are a touch on the rude side.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Hence the wink at the end of the statement

Ahh, I was think that was for the entire statement, not just the "unlikely"

 

[megaresp]

Considering that since the start Australia has only won 34 of the matches compared to New Zealand's 92 wins, and that Australia has only held the cup 12 times, compared to New Zealand's 42 (23-4 and 10-0 in the past 10 years), I don't think that a New Zealand win between the two countries is actually "unlikely".

Hang on, weren't you the guy that doesn't follow sport and stated it as a reason why the black flag with silver fern meant nothing to you?

My 2 pence - silver fern is a better symbol for the flag than a kiwi. Let's leave the flightless bird to what's left of the Air Force.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Hang on, weren't you the guy that doesn't follow sport and stated it as a reason why the black flag with silver fern meant nothing to you?

I never said I don't follow sport, I said that some New Zealanders don't, which is true, I know a number of them. Some don't follow it because of their beliefs, others because they just don't like it. These days I don't follow a lot of rugby because a) it's on Sky and I'm too poor to pay for TV, and b) there is just too much of it with the pre-Super matches, then the Super 14, 16? 18? whatever, the 4 Nations, the ITM Cup, the extra Bledisloe match, then the end of year tour. Gah... talk about burn out

 

[The Atheist]

... the black flag with silver fern ...

Of all the choices, that's the one I hope gets ignored.

A black flag? Who has a black flag? ISIS and pirates.

C'mon, we must be able to be a bit more creative than hijack the All Blacks' symbol. Anything?

 

[Madalch]

I saw a proposal one that had the fern as green between two green bars, much like the Canadian flag (actually, the description would be Vert, on a Canadian pale Argent a silver fern Vert). At least it's not black.

 

[The Atheist]

That's fine - I'm like the anti-Henry Ford.

Any colour you like, as long as it's not black.

I would have thought white would be essential to nod the hat at Aotearoa. A logical representation of NZ would be blue, green and white bars in order from the ground up - sea, land & cloud.

Maybe we could slap one of those traditional Maori designs of the tiki with an erect penis in the middle? Could double the flag as a hat-rack. Is there a law flags have to be 2D?

 

[fleabeetle]

In fact no-one in the southern hemisphere calls the fruit a "kiwi". It's a "kiwifruit". That's a minor pet peeve of mine. A kiwi is always a bird or colloquially a citizen of New Zealand.

My 2 pence - silver fern is a better symbol for the flag than a kiwi. Let's leave the flightless bird to what's left of the Air Force.

If a bird emblem for a new flag were after all to be considered -- how about a Kakapo? (My favourite bird in the whole world.)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kakapo

 

[PhantomWolf]

That's fine - I'm like the anti-Henry Ford.

Any colour you like, as long as it's not black.

I would have thought white would be essential to nod the hat at Aotearoa. A logical representation of NZ would be blue, green and white bars in order from the ground up - sea, land & cloud.

something like this?

 

[Madalch]

something like this?

Ugh.

Fine, it's true that New Zealand has green land, blue water, and some clouds. But you know what?


SO DOES EVERY OTHER COUNTRY!

Use a *symbol* that represents New Zealand, not some abstract waviness and generic colour scheme. And never put red stars on a blue background- look up "rule of tincture".

 

[The Atheist]

SO DOES EVERY OTHER COUNTRY!

Ah, but other countries (apart from England) actually get blue sky, which is why it's important the white goes at the top.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Ah, but other countries (apart from England) actually get blue sky, which is why it's important the white goes at the top.

Trouble with having white on a border side is that when people put it on a white background it vanishes and you just end up with the other colours

 

[Trebuchet]

Just stick a kangaroo on it.

(Runs and hides.)

 

[The Atheist]

Trouble with having white on a border side is that when people put it on a white background it vanishes and you just end up with the other colours

Never surrender in Antarctica.

 

[PhantomWolf]

Never surrender in Antarctica.

especially in a blizzard....

Another issue with a white, green, blue stripe is that then it'll get confused with this one

 

[Huttosaurus]

I think when the New Zealanders talk about kiwis being their national emblem, they are talking about the bird and not the fruit.

Indeed, as the Royal New Zealand Air Force roundel demonstrates. Nobody in NZ refers to kiwifruit as a "kiwi". Note this is an RNZAF historic flight aircraft, we don't still use Harvards operationally



Pertinent to the discussion though is that the Kiwi roundel has only been in use since 1970. Prior to that from 1957 a different design was in use, at first in white, then silver:

Fern image source here. The Harvard pic is mine.

Pre 1957 the standard RAF roundel was used but I don't know if many people know that the silver fern has already been used in an official government capacity to represent NZ, and it wasn't altogether successful for a variety of reasons, colloquially being said to resemble a white feather being one of them.

A history of the silver fern design and transition to kiwi is here for anyone interested.

As for the flag, I'm not seeing any real public mandate or drive other than Prime Ministerial whim (not anything more significant at least than the other times this topic has surfaced as it periodically does in NZ) and that's not a good enough reason to change it, or spend 20-odd million bucks of public money in the process. That and the lack of a better design. The silver fern on a black flag? Gimme a break.

I don't care if people confuse the current flag with Australia's. It's not my problem if people aren't observant enough to notice the obvious differences and as others have pointed out there are other nations out there that share actually identical flags (or near enough) without a problem.

Edited by Loss Leader: 

Edited for Hotlinking

 

[Huttosaurus]

Change it. Blue ensigns and red ensigns are appropriate for colonies (but only just- they were meant as naval flags. As one of the Georges said when seeing Canada's red ensign flying from parliament- "I see the flag, but where the hell's the ship?").

Here's the Royal New Zealand Navy ensign. Not sure if this helps

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_New_Zealand_Navy#mediaviewer/File:Naval_Ensign_of_New_Zealand.svg

I'd embed it but the IMG tags don't want to play for some reason.

 

[The Atheist]

...we don't still use Harvards operationally ...

Still better than the planes we do have!

Good post on the naval ensign as well - the ensign always looks better than the flag, I reckon.

especially in a blizzard....

Another issue with a white, green, blue stripe is that then it'll get confused with this one

Not with a whacking great design in the middle it won't.