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Should Illegal Immigrants get Welfare

Elf Grinder 3000 said:
Under Obama's administration illegal immigrants will receive the earned income tax credit.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...-receive-earned-income-tax-credit_841496.html

A mother making 15K a year with 2 kids gets about 5K from the government.

I say this is unfair to taxpayers. Liberals will say that all non white people are victims and that the rich are evil so its OK.

What do the luminaries at JREF say?

Add that to the 4 Trillion in spending Obama wants I guess
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I don't think that illegal immigrants should be eligible for the earned income tax credit.

Who can solve this problem? Congress. They can amend the tax code to make it clear that that illegal immigrants are not eligible for the earned income tax credit. Dare Obama to veto that bill. I think he'd sign it. If not, Republicans have a great issue to take to the voters.

Your team is in charge of both houses of congress now. If they think this is a problem, they should do something about it.
 
Can we get back to the OP, because I am genuinely curious about the things said here. Would illegal immigrants get more in tax credits than they would pay in income taxes on average? More than they would pay in total taxes? I am not addressing "welfare" here, because despite being in the thread title that was not the main point made in the OP. But if one wants, I would also be curious to find how much the average illegal immigrant pays in total taxes vs. gets paid in "welfare" but would like that expressed separate from the tax credit issue.

For example, it was stated that an illegal immigrant with a family who grosses $15000 in a job "gets" $5000 from the government in benefits. Is this typical, and if so, is the $5000 bonus a net gain after they pay their taxes and fees, or does it ignore these payments? How many illegal immigrants get "welfare?" I don't know- any one have numbers?

Separately I think $15000 a year for a family with kids is awfully small and I can see trying to help them out. Is there a father in this picture?
 
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Giordano said:
Can we get back to the OP, because I am genuinely curious about the things said here. Would illegal immigrants get more in tax credits than they would pay in income taxes on average? More than they would pay in total taxes? I am not addressing "welfare" here, because despite being in the thread title that was not the main point made in the OP. But if one wants, I would also be curious to find how much the average illegal immigrant pays in total taxes vs. gets paid in "welfare" but would like that expressed separate from the tax credit issue.

For example, it was stated that an illegal immigrant with a family who grosses $15000 in a job "gets" $5000 from the government in benefits. Is this typical, and if so, is the $5000 bonus a net gain after they pay their taxes and fees, or does it ignore these payments? How many illegal immigrants get "welfare?" I don't know- any one have numbers?

Separately I think $15000 a year for a family with kids is awfully small and I can see trying to help them out. Is there a father in this picture?
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I was just looking up information on that earlier.

Here's one source:

http://www.itep.org/immigration/

Undocumented immigrants currently contribute significantly to state and local taxes, collectively paying an estimated $10.6 billion in 2010 with contributions ranging from less than $2 million in Montana to more than $2.2 billion in California. This means these families are likely paying about 6.4 percent on average of their income in state and local taxes.

• Allowing undocumented immigrants to work in the United States legally would increase their state and local tax contributions by an estimated $2 billion a year. Their effective state and local tax rate would also increase to 7 percent on average, which would put their tax contributions more in line with documented taxpayers with similar incomes.
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This of course leaves out federal taxes, which until now illegals have not paid (I think) because they would not have social security numbers and since it is technically illegal for them to work here, I don't see how they could file a tax return. Same reason drug dealers don't pay taxes: their job is illegal.

Here is another source:
http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-u-s-taxpayers

Executive Summary
This report estimates the annual costs of illegal immigration at the federal, state and local level to be about $113 billion; nearly $29 billion at the federal level and $84 billion at the state and local level. The study also estimates tax collections from illegal alien workers, both those in the above-ground economy and those in the underground economy. Those receipts do not come close to the level of expenditures and, in any case, are misleading as an offset because over time unemployed and underemployed U.S. workers would replace illegal alien workers.

Key Findings

Illegal immigration costs U.S. taxpayers about $113 billion a year at the federal, state and local level. The bulk of the costs — some $84 billion — are absorbed by state and local governments.

The annual outlay that illegal aliens cost U.S. taxpayers is an average amount per native-headed household of $1,117. The fiscal impact per household varies considerably because the greatest share of the burden falls on state and local taxpayers whose burden depends on the size of the illegal alien population in that locality

Education for the children of illegal aliens constitutes the single largest cost to taxpayers, at an annual price tag of nearly $52 billion. Nearly all of those costs are absorbed by state and local governments.

At the federal level, about one-third of outlays are matched by tax collections from illegal aliens. At the state and local level, an average of less than 5 percent of the public costs associated with illegal immigration is recouped through taxes collected from illegal aliens.

Most illegal aliens do not pay income taxes. Among those who do, much of the revenues collected are refunded to the illegal aliens when they file tax returns. Many are also claiming tax credits resulting in payments from the U.S. Treasury.
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So very roughly speaking, they pay about $10 billion in state and local taxes, but cost about $113 billion to the Federal, State and Local government taxpayers.
 
All the government has to do is place heavy fines on the employers, voila, self deportation.
 
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logger said:
All the government has to do is place heavy fines on the employers, voila, self deportation.
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I would say 'Heavily fine the employers, AND the employers pay for the deportation costs of any of the illegals working for them.

Individuals as well.
 
No they should get welfare, nor should anyone else. And the borders should be open.
 
I think they should just get rid of the illegal immigrants altogether...

...by making them legal. Automatic citizenship for anyone who wants to live in the country.
 
NewtonTrino said:
No they should get welfare, nor should anyone else. And the borders should be open.
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I like the open border approach. Really, I do. Let people decide where to live and where to work. You work in the US, then you follow the US rules while you are there, and then follow the rules in Canada or Mexico if that's where you live. Or vice versa.
 
Giordano said:
Can we get back to the OP, because I am genuinely curious about the things said here. Would illegal immigrants get more in tax credits than they would pay in income taxes on average? More than they would pay in total taxes? I am not addressing "welfare" here, because despite being in the thread title that was not the main point made in the OP. But if one wants, I would also be curious to find how much the average illegal immigrant pays in total taxes vs. gets paid in "welfare" but would like that expressed separate from the tax credit issue.

For example, it was stated that an illegal immigrant with a family who grosses $15000 in a job "gets" $5000 from the government in benefits. Is this typical, and if so, is the $5000 bonus a net gain after they pay their taxes and fees, or does it ignore these payments? How many illegal immigrants get "welfare?" I don't know- any one have numbers?

Separately I think $15000 a year for a family with kids is awfully small and I can see trying to help them out. Is there a father in this picture?
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Yes they get more than they paid in taxes

Here is an example:

Mother, 2 children earns 15K
Tax = 0
EITC = $5,000 which they get as a check from the government

They pay payroll tax and possibly sales tax and state income tax. The payroll tax they get back in SS>

They are net takers, this is proof
 
Elf Grinder 3000 said:
Yes they get more than they paid in taxes

Here is an example:

Mother, 2 children earns 15K
Tax = 0
EITC = $5,000 which they get as a check from the government

They pay payroll tax and possibly sales tax and state income tax. The payroll tax they get back in SS>

They are net takers, this is proof
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Do illegals get SS?
 
Elf Grinder 3000 said:
They won't if they don't become citizens

SS tax is 6% of 15K or about $900

Guess who pays for the kids public school education? Guess how much that cost

$22,000 for her two kids

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html
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The picture seems a little different to me when you bring the kids into it. Freeloading is one thing, but freeloading while supporting children adds another element. I'd kinda like the kids not to suffer for their parents mistakes.

ETA: Children - the ultimate freeloaders. And if you try to cut them off? BLAMMO! The government comes down on you like a ton of bricks.
 
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Should people with speeding tickets get welfare? As far as I can tell, these Americans in the country illegally have done less harm for better moral reasons than people who break traffic laws.
 
Elf Grinder 3000 said:
Guess who pays for the kids public school education? Guess how much that cost

$22,000 for her two kids

http://www.governing.com/gov-data/education-data/state-education-spending-per-pupil-data.html
Click to expand...


Well, if you want to switch over to that topic, fine. You're still wrong.

Public schools are funded mainly through property taxes. If your illegal immigrant owns property, he or she is paying the property tax. But - and this is important - if the illegal immigrant is renting, he/she is still paying property tax. It's figured into the rent set by the landlord.

So, once again, what injustice is occurring because the person is illegal rather than just a regular, non-wealthy citizen?


ETA: And what social good is delivered in the long-run by educating the children of illegal immigrants? Will they become more or less of an economic burden in adulthood if educated as children?
 
Puppycow said:
I was just looking up information on that earlier.

Here's one source:

http://www.itep.org/immigration/



This of course leaves out federal taxes, which until now illegals have not paid (I think) because they would not have social security numbers and since it is technically illegal for them to work here, I don't see how they could file a tax return. Same reason drug dealers don't pay taxes: their job is illegal.

Here is another source:
http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-u-s-taxpayers



So very roughly speaking, they pay about $10 billion in state and local taxes, but cost about $113 billion to the Federal, State and Local government taxpayers.
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I would be VERY suspicious of any stats from FAIR. It's like asking the White Citizens Council for figures on race and crime... FAIR was founded by White Supremacists and the still rant about "European" (ie white) civilization..

As for Federal taxes, their employers use false or stolen SS numbers to file withholding. It's not difficult and the IRS doesn't look closely so long as no one files for a refund. Same with FICA.
 
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