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Settle it: Who thinks Obama is a socialist?

Wouldn't you say that the idea of taxing the rich more in order to "spread the wealth around," is a socialist concept?

What about the concept that "At some point you've made enough money?"
 
xjx388 said:
Wouldn't you say that the idea of taxing the rich more in order to "spread the wealth around," is a socialist concept?
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Does anyone actually think that's why the rich should be taxed more? Or is it just a strawman?
 
As a corollary would calling for a tax cut for the rich be an ararcho-capitalist concept?
 
xjx388 said:
Wouldn't you say that the idea of taxing the rich more in order to "spread the wealth around," is a socialist concept?

What about the concept that "At some point you've made enough money?"
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They could be, if you stretch ambiguity. But a couple of statements that maybe could be interpreted as sympathetic to socialism don't exactly add up to socialist policy, if you look at his actual policy.

And in fact, he followed up the "at some point you've made enough money" with an affirmation that it's the American way to allow you to keep earning money anyway.
 
xjx388 said:
Wouldn't you say that the idea of taxing the rich more in order to "spread the wealth around," is a socialist concept?
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If that's your definition then our current and federal income tax structure is a socialist concept. It also means every president and congress has approved that social concept. It means the current Republicans support that socialist concept.

That boogie man has no teeth.
 
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I think that Obama is a Democratic Socialist in the European style, in that he sees the engine of capitalism as something to be harnessed and used via taxation and regulation to promote social outcomes that he sees as desirable, such as reduction in inequality of income/wealth.

Comparisons to Stalin and Mao are ridiculous and unhelpful.
 
MaGZ said:
I really don’t understand why people like you don’t celebrate the fact that Obama is a person of the Left, a Socialist, a pinko liberal a fellow-traveler of the communists.
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He's a socialist, a liberal and a communist?

He has to be some sort of magician to be able to hold three different ideologies at once.
 
Brainster said:
I think that Obama is a Democratic Socialist in the European style, in that he sees the engine of capitalism as something to be harnessed and used via taxation and regulation to promote social outcomes that he sees as desirable, such as reduction in inequality of income/wealth.

Comparisons to Stalin and Mao are ridiculous and unhelpful.
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Thank you.

It's as unhelpful as claiming Romney is like Mr Burns from The Simpsons.
 
Brainster said:
I think that Obama is a Democratic Socialist in the European style, in that he sees the engine of capitalism as something to be harnessed and used via taxation and regulation to promote social outcomes that he sees as desirable, such as reduction in inequality of income/wealth.

Comparisons to Stalin and Mao are ridiculous and unhelpful.
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As a Socialist Democrat from Europe I would say that Obama is well to the right of Democratic Socialism. He is no more socialist that Reagan, Carter, Ford, etc.
 
The other major difference being what happens when they tell their butler to "release the hounds."
 
It's a sign of just how brainwashed most Americans are that two simple questions haven't really been addressed in the larger debate:

1) Just what IS a "socialist"?

This is what the Right says Socialism is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CaMUfxVJVQ

Europe is closer to what socialism REALLY is.

2) Is socialism a bad thing?

The Right has everyone believing that there is no debate, that "socialism"="evil".

Are Europeans "evil" because they require businesses to operate considering not only their shareholder interests, but their stakeholder interests (including the greater public good)? Are Europeans "evil" because they generally believe in the basic human right to health care, and that it's the government's responsibility to see to it if all else fails?

By contrast, I DO know what capitalism is (among other things):

  • the 1% getting every richer while the 99% suffer off-shoring and outsourcing
  • sub-living wages for 100s of millions of hard-working people all over the world
  • telling a kid with cancer/diabetes/MS/whatever "if your parents can't pay to care for you, tough luck. You should have picked better parents to be born to."
  • telling the poor "You chose to be this way. Go suffer".
  • the fortunate few with money "build" businesses and are entitled to ALL the profits despite the fact that it's the WORKERS whose labor built the business and provides the goods and services who made that profit possible
 
Megalodon said:
European socialism is perfectly democratic and capitalism friendly. We do however want controls in place to avoid the kind of wealth disparities we saw in the past, and are seeing again. Since we can't have a society where everyone is rich, we strive for a society with a strong and affluent middle-class, and with a safety net that allows for the survival and reintegration of the less fortunate. We also want (and have) a universal health care system. Social equality is also defended by european socialists, be it race, gender or sexual orientation.

So, I don't know if Obama is a socialist (in the european sense), but if he is, good for him.

As for him being a socialist (in the wacky american sense meaning a stalinist, which in Europe would be called a communist), people who claim that are at best politically ignorant.
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Well you could make a case that Obama is a euro-style socialist or social democrat. He's kind of a lukewarm one at most. The thing is in America, "socialist" is a dirty word, and is largely associated with soviet-style communism, whereas in Europe, "socialist" is a word with a positive connotation associated with a more extensive welfare state or mixed economy (primarily capitalist production, with more government involvement than exists in the US). So, calling Obama a socialist may not be completely wrong, but the people doing so are trying to create the impression that he's a lot more radical than he really is.
 
gnome said:
When describing a socialist, it means the most radical and anti-freedom extremes that socialism can offer. When deciding whether someone belongs to that group, it's anyone who wants a 3% tax hike on the wealthiest Americans.
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Also, it's only "class warfare" if the middle or working classes try to fight back.
 
No national health, still have Bush tax rates, loans to auto makers instead of, say, nationalizing car manufacturing?

In a word,
no.
 
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