Send in the tanks! (Chavez)

[McHrozni]

yeah i notices your move of goalpost but i ignore them.
you called Venezuela a dictatorship do to a lack of freedom of press, now that you realize what a dumb claim it was you moved the goalposts. very telling

Of course it's a dictatorship because of the lack of the freedom of press, among other things. I picked it because you conceded earlier it had problems with it and couldn't worm out of it all that easily. You had to divert attention and use tu queque fallacy, which, predictably, failed.

Now that we've cleared that up, do you also agree they lack an independent judiciary? You haven't addressed that at all, just ignored the issue and attempted (pathetically) to divert attention. May I assume you're conceding that point as well?

McHrozni

 

[Childlike Empress]

The Great Chavez expresses his progressive and humane thoughts on Idi Amin:



About former Ugandan President Idi Amin, Mr Chavez said: “We thought he was a cannibal… I don’t know, maybe he was a great nationalist, a patriot.”
Idi Amin seized power in 1971. About 300,000 people were killed during his eight-year rule.

I have to wonder what type of person admires a monster like Idi Amin.

Not Chavez. He was making a rhetorical point about the vicious lies spread about himself and others in the corporate press. He said it's that bad that one can't even be sure if Idi Amin wasn't just a patriot smeared by the media. Too funny that this was then quote-mined and willingly peddled by the accused, to prove the point. Like the nonsense about the earthquake weapon. Wouldn't be surprised if the alleged statement about the moon landing was a similar argument, whose irony was lost in translation on a prejudiced Hitchens who already had a couple of Mojitos too much...

 

[DC]

How do you call a government which violates freedoms of the press and doesn't protect journalists?

McHrozni

i don0t know, in German there is no specific name for it, there is in english?

Appeal to ignorance isn't a very convincing excuse.

Let's call a spade a spade and call it a dictatorship, shall we? In German, Diktatur.

McHrozni

Of course it's a dictatorship because of the lack of the freedom of press, among other things. I picked it because you conceded earlier it had problems with it and couldn't worm out of it all that easily. You had to divert attention and use tu queque fallacy, which, predictably, failed.

Now that we've cleared that up, do you also agree they lack an independent judiciary? You haven't addressed that at all, just ignored the issue and attempted (pathetically) to divert attention. May I assume you're conceding that point as well?

McHrozni

you used a very flawed definition, no mention of among other thigngs etc etc, your post is clear, you said i should call it a dictatorship because it has a lack in freedom of press. But then you realized that this would mean other countries that you do not consider Dictatorships would have to be called Dictatorships. and suddenly you move the goal posts. i take that as a retraction of your eralier claim

 

[McHrozni]

Not Chavez. He was making a rhetorical point about the vicious lies spread about himself and others in the corporate press. He said it's that bad that one can't even be sure if Idi Amin wasn't just a patriot smeared by the media. Too funny that this was then quote-mined and willingly peddled by the accused, to prove the point. Like the nonsense about the earthquake weapon. Wouldn't be surprised if the alleged statement about the moon landing was a similar argument, whose irony was lost in translation on a prejudiced Hitchens who already had a couple of Mojitos too much...

Do you have a transcript of the entire speech? If so, could you link to it?

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

you used a very flawed definition, no mention of among other thigngs etc etc, your post is clear, you said i should call it a dictatorship because it has a lack in freedom of press. But then you realized that this would mean other countries that you do not consider Dictatorships would have to be called Dictatorships. and suddenly you move the goal posts. i take that as a retraction of your eralier claim

Not what I meant, but okay, I'll clarify myself. Not every country that violates freedom of the press to any extent is instantly a dictatorship, though none that violate it to a meaningful extent are democracies. Venezuela, on the other hand, is a dictatorship, based on this and on other factors as well.

Note, I'm not changing anything, I just see now how you could misunderstand what I was saying, as it was somewhat unclear.

You, on the other hand, admit Venezuela has "major issues" and lack independent judiciary, and still call it a democracy, for some odd reason. Do you also pray to Chavez?

McHrozni

 

[Childlike Empress]

Do you have a transcript of the entire speech? If so, could you link to it?

I think it's somewhere in the thread. This crap gets repeated over and over again. He did call Ahmadinejad his brother, though, so you still have something to be outraged about.

 

[DC]

Not what I meant, but okay, I'll clarify myself. Not every country that violates freedom of the press to any extent is instantly a dictatorship, though none that violate it to a meaningful extent are democracies. Venezuela, on the other hand, is a dictatorship, based on this and on other factors as well.

Note, I'm not changing anything, I just see now how you could misunderstand what I was saying, as it was somewhat unclear.

You, on the other hand, admit Venezuela has "major issues" and lack independent judiciary, and still call it a democracy, for some odd reason. Do you also pray to Chavez?

McHrozni

no, i never pray to anything.

i call it a democracy because despite all the problems Chavez has created with his Authoritarian behavior, it still is possible for opposition politicans to win elections and they did. and maybe they will also in the Presidental election.

and as i said earlier, i would prefer a president in Venezuela that is more like Lula, more rational and less revolutionary and more reformist than Chavez.

but yeah i know, aslong i do not call Chavez a Dictator that hates poor people i am still a Chavez fanboy that prays to him

 

[Childlike Empress]

@McHrozni: btw, your windings to find a way to justify the dictatorship label are mildly amusing but not worth further commenting on.

 

[McHrozni]

i call it a democracy because despite all the problems Chavez has created with his Authoritarian behavior, it still is possible for opposition politicans to win elections and they did. and maybe they will also in the Presidental election.

You have a very broad definition of democracy, which is at odds with just about every other definition of democracy known to man. By the same standard I can call Sudan a democracy, I just have to twist the requirements a bit more.

but yeah i know, aslong i do not call Chavez a Dictator that hates poor people i am still a Chavez fanboy that prays to him

Anyone not calling him a dictator (or comparable) is either ignorant or his fanboy. I don't know where you're getting his "hates poor people" part from.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

I think it's somewhere in the thread. This crap gets repeated over and over again. He did call Ahmadinejad his brother, though, so you still have something to be outraged about.

I think Ahmed has more to be outraged with that, given that he's the president of a fairly conservative state that doesn't look too kindly at adultery.

McHrozni

 

[DC]

You have a very broad definition of democracy, which is at odds with just about every other definition of democracy known to man. By the same standard I can call Sudan a democracy, I just have to twist the requirements a bit more.



Anyone not calling him a dictator (or comparable) is either ignorant or his fanboy. I don't know where you're getting his "hates poor people" part from.

McHrozni

so CNN reporters are Chavez fanboys. didn't know that

http://topics.cnn.com/topics/hugo_chavez

 

[McHrozni]

you used a very flawed definition, no mention of among other thigngs etc etc, your post is clear, you said i should call it a dictatorship because it has a lack in freedom of press. But then you realized that this would mean other countries that you do not consider Dictatorships would have to be called Dictatorships. and suddenly you move the goal posts. i take that as a retraction of your eralier claim

I checked the conversation a bit, your quotes turn coated a lot of the debate. I will therefore retract my statement that I was unclear, as the lack of clarity was a direct result of your quote mining.

Yeah, you're his fanboy.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

so CNN reporters are Chavez fanboys. didn't know that

There are a lot of things you don't know, that CNN calls all heads of state by their title only is but one of them. Note, titles "president" and "dictator" aren't mutually exclusive, many called themselves just that.

McHrozni

 

[DC]

There are a lot of things you don't know, that CNN calls all heads of state by their title only is but one of them. Note, titles "president" and "dictator" aren't mutually exclusive, many called themselves just that.

McHrozni

aah i gues you was a bit unclear then LOL.

oh dear this made my day, thanks

 

[DC]

I checked the conversation a bit, your quotes turn coated a lot of the debate. I will therefore retract my statement that I was unclear, as the lack of clarity was a direct result of your quote mining.

Yeah, you're his fanboy.

McHrozni

yeah sure, you just can't addmit being wrong. hillarious.

 

[McHrozni]

aah i gues you was a bit unclear then LOL.

Nope, nothing unclear there, just your fanatical devotion to a dictator and a small talent for quote mining and taking things out of context

McHrozni

 

[DC]

Nope, nothing unclear there, just your fanatical devotion to a dictator and a small talent for quote mining and taking things out of context

McHrozni

LOL, its ok McHrozni, its ok

 

[Childlike Empress]

Anyone not calling him a dictator (or comparable) is either ignorant or his fanboy.

Apparently that includes your president, although he managed to put in a little quip about "free and fair elections which we don't always see" into his recent statement that Venezuela poses no threat to the US.


But that wasn't enough for Romney who feigns outrage about the President's naivite:


There's your man, McHrozni. Be afraid, be very afraid, the latino-islamo world conspiracy is spreading dictatorships, next in a cinema near you.The prospect of having this guy in the White House would be creepy if I weren't convinced that the oligarchy has already decided that Obama is the far more useful puppet and will win, if necessary with the help of Diebold.

 

[McHrozni]

yeah sure, you just can't addmit being wrong. hillarious.

Given how much context you eliminated to make my arguments appear different that what they actually were, I strongly suspect you're just being an appendage again

How's that independent judiciary coming, by the way? Are you still calling a guy who destroyed it a democratic president?

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

Apparently that includes your president,

You apparently think I'm an American. A common mistake.
That aside, a politician using non-inflammatory language means he isn't behaving like an idiot. A commentary on an online forum, after all, is much more permissible than a statement from an official to the press. Chavez usually isn't smart enough to do so.

I have no doubt you'll try to misunderstand this as well and use another straw man It doesn't make you smart.

McHrozni