Send in the tanks! (Chavez)

[DC]

Given how much context you eliminated to make my arguments appear different that what they actually were, I strongly suspect you're just being an appendage again

How's that independent judiciary coming, by the way? Are you still calling a guy who destroyed it a democratic president?

McHrozni

i quoted all posts that quoted eachother.
you asked me how a county is called that has a lack of freedom of press and fails to protect journalists. i said i don't know, we don't have a word for it in German, then you claimed that Dicatatorship is the apropriate name.

which is clearly wrong and goes against all definitions of Dictatorship.
but i guess the Economist's Democracy index was compiled by Chavez fanboys. and also the Freedom of press index was compiled by Chavistas.

 

[DC]

You have a very broad definition of democracy, which is at odds with just about every other definition of democracy known to man. By the same standard I can call Sudan a democracy, I just have to twist the requirements a bit more.



Anyone not calling him a dictator (or comparable) is either ignorant or his fanboy. I don't know where you're getting his "hates poor people" part from.

McHrozni

 

[McHrozni]

i quoted all posts that quoted eachother.

So? You changed the meaning.

you asked me how a county is called that has a lack of freedom of press and fails to protect journalists. i said i don't know, we don't have a word for it in German, then you claimed that Dicatatorship is the apropriate name.

And then you asked why would you call him a dictator if he wasn't one, and the posts you quoted later were in reply to that post, not the first one as you deliberately made it appear in your post.

As I said, you do have a small talent for quote mining, I give you that.

McHrozni

 

[DC]

So? You changed the meaning.


And then you asked why would you call him a dictator if he wasn't one, and the posts you quoted later were in reply to that post, not the first one as you deliberately made it appear in your post.

McHrozni

yeah with my magical abilities. its magic baby.

 

[McHrozni]

yeah with my magical abilities. its magic baby.

No, nothing magical, just marginal skill of derailing the discussion.

My my, Chavez must be doing poorly indeed if all defense his fanboys and girls can muster is smoke and mirrors.

McHrozni

 

[DC]

No, nothing magical, just marginal skill of derailing the discussion.

My my, Chavez must be doing poorly indeed if all defense his fanboys and girls can muster is smoke and mirrors.

McHrozni

hey something we can agree on, Chavez is doing poorly
i hope i dont accidently change the meaning here....

 

[Childlike Empress]

That aside, a politician using non-inflammatory language means he isn't behaving like an idiot. A commentary on an online forum, after all, is much more permissible than a statement from an official to the press. Chavez usually isn't smart enough to do so.

He just doesn't care, as he explicitly stated. He knows that all diplomacy wouldn't change the treatment he gets in the western corporate press, as long as the independent policies stay the same. Or as he said it, he could dress like the pope praying for world peace day and night, with no effect. So he decided long time ago to have some fun on occasion, and to share the smell of sulphur with us.

He still can't sing, though...

 

[McHrozni]

He just doesn't care, as he explicitly stated. He knows that all diplomacy wouldn't change the treatment he gets in the western corporate press, as long as the independent policies stay the same.

Have you ever heard the term "action speaks louder than words"? Obviously Chavismo by itself is a disaster enough without inflammatory language. Still, stirring up controversy because he "doesn't care" is a bad policy. He's either an idiot, or deliberately making external enemies to eliminate opposition, I can't decide which.

If it's the latter ignoring him is the way to go.

McHrozni

 

[trustbutverify]

Not Chavez. He was making a rhetorical point about the vicious lies spread about himself and others in the corporate press. He said it's that bad that one can't even be sure if Idi Amin wasn't just a patriot smeared by the media. Too funny that this was then quote-mined and willingly peddled by the accused, to prove the point. Like the nonsense about the earthquake weapon. Wouldn't be surprised if the alleged statement about the moon landing was a similar argument, whose irony was lost in translation on a prejudiced Hitchens who already had a couple of Mojitos too much...

And the apologists shift into fantasy mode!

 

[Beerina]

The jackass just put the third leg of dictatorship in place.

1. Jail opposition and journalists on trumped up charges.
2. Gain the "emergency" power to pass laws by decree.


and now...




wait for it....



3. Outlaw guns and ammunition.

You know, that second amendment thing in the US some here fancy is a quaint anachronism that has outlived its usefulness?

 

[Virus]

He just doesn't care, as he explicitly stated. He knows that all diplomacy wouldn't change the treatment he gets in the western corporate press, as long as the independent policies stay the same. Or as he said it, he could dress like the pope praying for world peace day and night, with no effect. So he decided long time ago to have some fun on occasion, and to share the smell of sulphur with us.

He still can't sing, though...

Was he just having a laugh when he said 9/11 was an inside job?

 

[DC]

The jackass just put the third leg of dictatorship in place.

1. Jail opposition and journalists on trumped up charges.
2. Gain the "emergency" power to pass laws by decree.


and now...




wait for it....



3. Outlaw guns and ammunition.

You know, that second amendment thing in the US some here fancy is a quaint anachronism that has outlived its usefulness?

not everyone see it as a step towards Dictatorship

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-18288430

 

[Childlike Empress]

Oh, trying to do something about the murder rates, eh? Ziggurat will love it.

2. Gain the "emergency" power to pass laws by decree.

Problem with these things is that the media laments when they happen but never inform when they end. You'd have to read this thread to know that it was a temporary right (in certain areas of policy making) and is a thing of the past now. Since what, three years?

 

[Childlike Empress]

Continued mining youtube a bit. There are a couple of essential documentaries linked on the first pages of this thread, but here's one I found which I didn't know about but would recommend to those new to the topic. It's a French production (with English narration and subtitles) and the interesting thing is that it was released in early 2002, shortly before the failed coup attempt happened (for details on that, see "The Revolution will not be televised"), so it only covers the first three years of Chavez' presidency and what went before that. And among the critics interviewed is the then mayor Capriles who now, a decade and numerous elections later, rather chancelessly, runs against Chavez in the upcoming presidential election. Quality.

 

[trustbutverify]

The hits just keep on coming: Uncle Hugo thinks that free markets might have destroyed Martian Civilization.

I have always said, heard, that it would not be strange that there had been civilization on Mars, but maybe capitalism arrived there, imperialism arrived and finished off the planet," Chavez said in speech to mark World Water Day.

 

[Childlike Empress]

The months leading up to October will be fun, and the crusaders and the nazi-right will deliver us the gems of the desperate propaganda war - at face value.

edit: oh, I see it's already over a year old, tsk tsk - they'll do even "better" from a humorous point of view, believe me.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I feel I should describe what's so funny to close the gap to potential interested readers: An honest Reuters headline about this statement, which unfortunately for them would stop making it a news item, would not be "Chavez says capitalism may have ended life on Mars", but "Chavez thinks capitalism and imperialism are threatening the survival of civilization on Earth"

 

[McHrozni]

[qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/9907451897c0442ad.gif[/qimg]

The months leading up to October will be fun, and the crusaders and the nazi-right will deliver us the gems of the desperate propaganda war - at face value.

edit: oh, I see it's already over a year old, tsk tsk - they'll do even "better" from a humorous point of view, believe me.

We do agree on one thing, the next 12 weeks will be much fun.

McHrozni

 

[Virus]

This is how democracy works under the Chavez regime.

Chavez's right-hand man lost an election in Miranda to an opposition leader Capriles. So Chavez punished the district by closing down 19 of Miranda's hospitals, 250 clinics and seized highways, airports and acres of land. 200 million was slashed from Miranda's budget and several thousand state workers became federal employees.

Sucre is one of the poorest areas of Venezuela where people build houses out of whatever they can scrape together. They voted against Chavez and elected Carlos Ocariz. The very day after the election, Chavez punished the district by taking away sixteen garbage trucks and cutting off their water.

Even though Chavez does his best to hamstring the opposition's ability to govern, Ocariz was able to accomplish more with less than the previous Chavista administration due to the sheer amount of inefficiency and waste. Ocariz reduced administrative expenses while increasing the size and pay of the police force. The homicide rate went down by 25%. He also got water deliveries and overhauled the pumping system to get water back to the people of Ocariz.

Of course to even campaign against Chavez means being stymied at every turn. You'll be hauled off to court on trumped up charges. You'll be disqualified from fund-raising. You'll be intimidated by Chavista boot-boys. You'll have to compete with fake opposition parties that are fronts for the Chavez regime.

Good for the poor? The only thing Hugo Chavez is good for is being a big, fat douchebag.

 

[trustbutverify]

Well, those wretchedly poor Venezuelans had to be taught that disloyalty has consequences. It was for their own good.