Send in the tanks! (Chavez)

Dictator Cheney said:
well he goes then on about Peru and Argentina, how they got reelected because they brought economys miracles. thanks to WorldBank and IMF.

maybe you should read about the poverty in Peru for example and the unequality and how slow the trickle down tactic works. especially outside Lima

while this source is not realy objective. it is telling a little diffrent story than wath Rodriguez wrote.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXT...piPK:216618~theSitePK:430367~isCURL:Y,00.html
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Try again, we are talking Venezuela here. Any comments any of the other claims?
 
New report by the Center for Economic and Policy Research in Washington. The Chávez Administration at 10 Years: The Economy and Social Indicators (Summary)

I wonder how many countries in the world can refer to such a record (non-perfect as it is, as everything is) over the last decade. Looking at just what has happened to the once world-famous german higher educational system during that period (now nearly destroyed, left are laughable "Bachelor" and "Master" degrees, thanks to EU legislation), i for one am jealous of the kind of leadership the venezuelan people enjoy.
 
Childlike Empress said:
I wonder how many countries in the world can refer to such a record (non-perfect as it is, as everything is) over the last decade.
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From the report:

"Venezuela ran a current account surplus estimated at 13.9 percent of GDP for 2008. This huge current account surplus would fall to zero at about $45 dollars a barrel for Venezuelan oil. Venezuela’s oil is currently at approximately $38 per barrel, so if oil prices remain at present levels, we would expect a current account deficit by the end of this year. However, this would not cause any balance of payments problems, as Venezuela has approximately $82 billion, or 25 percent of GDP, in foreign exchange reserves – more than twice what the country needs."

Interestingly enough, though, Venezuela is already facing problems paying its bills. And in a rather key area, too.

i for one am jealous of the kind of leadership the venezuelan people enjoy.
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Absent from the report was anything about Venezeula's skyrocketing crime rate. You're welcome to such leadership if you want it, but I want nothing like it.
 
Foreign reserves as high as never before. Foreign debt significantly diminished. Budget calculated with 60$/barrel, not at all unrealistic for 2009 average, yes, quite conservative. The delayed payments are strategic, that much i can tell you even as a person who doesn't care about money at all (6% rise in oil prices today - will maybe lose the same amount tomorrow but the trend is rising - highly manipulated market). Crime is a serious problem in a few urban areas. Chavez has a much more relaxed outlook on the future of his country than Obama has.
 
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wonder how many countries in the world can refer to such a record (non-perfect as it is, as everything is) over the last decade. Looking at just what has happened to the once world-famous german higher educational system during that period (now nearly destroyed, left are laughable "Bachelor" and "Master" degrees, thanks to EU legislation), i for one am jealous of the kind of leadership the venezuelan people enjoy.
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Ah, a German longing for a Authoritarian Government with a Wise, All Knowing Leader.
How cute.
Of course the individual has what I guess is a quote from a Communist dictator (now happyl defunct) of which I have to presume he/she approves, so what can you expect....
 
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Ziggurat said:
Fairly well, as it turns out.
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Good to hear. I guess you got the point, though.

dudalb said:
Of course the individual has what I guess is a quote from a Communist dictator (now happyl defunct) of which I have to presume he/she approves, so what can you expect....
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*yawn* How unsurprising that you don't get the joke. I explained it earlier in this very thread.
 
Childlike Empress said:
Good to hear. I guess you got the point, though.
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No, actually, I didn't. America is not experiencing a massive increase in violent crime. Venezuela is. You attribute its economic improvements to Chavez when most of that was simply the result of increased oil prices, but on the flip side, you ignore crime, which was both less influenced by external factors and more subject to influence by government action (or inaction). You try to dodge it by suggesting their crime problem is no different than ours, but the facts simply don't support that. So yeah, I don't think I did get your point. Care to state what it is a little more explicitly since apparently I can't figure it out?
 
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Ziggurat said:
No, actually, I didn't. America is not experiencing a massive increase in violent crime. Venezuela is. You attribute its economic improvements to Chavez when most of that was simply the result of increased oil prices, but on the flip side, you ignore crime, which was both less influenced by external factors and more subject to influence by government action (or inaction). You try to dodge it by suggesting their crime problem is no different than ours, but the facts simply don't support that. So yeah, I don't think I did get your point. Care to state what it is a little more explicitly since apparently I can't figure it out?
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Missed your post. My point was that it is as dishonest to talk about a "skyrocketing venezuelan crime rate", when it is a problem of a few urban areas, mainly Caracas, as it would be to speak of "skyrocketing US crime rates" in the 90ties, equating them with the crime rates in LA or other cities with slums full of marginalized people. Be that as it may, LA is still synonymous with violence in US cities for us old europeans, as you saw. Was the first example that came to my mind.

I stated several times in this thread that crime in certain cities of Venezuela is a huge problem, not dodging anything, but please acknowledge that the president of Venezuela is not responsible for the acts or non-acts of the Caracas police. That is the duty of the mayor of Caracas.

I didn't attribute the economic and social improvements to Chavez at all, in fact i am the one in this thread who pointed out repeatedly that Chavez only fulfills the wishes of the Venezuelan people and condemned the idea that the venezuelans are a bunch of followers who fell for the tricks and deceptions of an autocratic leader. That's the picture the corporate media paints, not mine.

So, yesterday the venezuelan people decided that Chavez and other venezuelan officials will have the opportunity to run for elections more than two times. 54.4% voted "si", 45.6% voted "no".

I guess that potentially puts Hugo in a category with evil leaders like Margret Thatcher and Helmut Kohl. History will judge whether or not he belongs there.
 
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Childlike Empress said:
I stated several times in this thread that crime in certain cities of Venezuela is a huge problem, not dodging anything, but please acknowledge that the president of Venezuela is not responsible for the acts or non-acts of the Caracas police. That is the duty of the mayor of Caracas.
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And pray tell me where the mayor had to move his work office to?

Along with his other officials.

I believe that the police were taken under federal control when the opposition mayor got in did they not?
 
Childlike Empress said:
Missed your post. My point was that it is as dishonest to talk about a "skyrocketing venezuelan crime rate", when it is a problem of a few urban areas, mainly Caracas
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And yet, it's so bad that the crime statistics for the country as a whole still show a massive upswing.

Be that as it may, LA is still synonymous with violence in US cities for us old europeans
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And?

please acknowledge that the president of Venezuela is not responsible for the acts or non-acts of the Caracas police. That is the duty of the mayor of Caracas.
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And Chavez has no influence on city politics in his capital? Chavez's social policies have nothing to do with crime rates? No, I don't think I buy that line of argument.

So, yesterday the venezuelan people decided that Chavez and other venezuelan officials will have the opportunity to run for elections more than two times. 54.4% voted "si", 45.6% voted "no".
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Sadly, democracy can always be voted away. This is the second time Chavez has tried to remove the term limits through referendum - it narrowly failed the first time, now it succeeded. But of course, now that it's succeeded, it will never come up for vote again, but the reverse is not true: if he had failed, he'd just wait a while and put it up for vote again. The system is rigged.

I guess that potentially puts Hugo in a category with evil leaders like Margret Thatcher and Helmut Kohl.
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No, actually, it doesn't. Unlike Chavez, Thatcher never pushed to change the constitution to suit her own political ambitions. Nor is that the only difference between them. I suspect that's the same for Kohl, though I can't say that with certainty and I don't care enough to find out right now.
 
Well, Ziggurat, you are are black and white thinker. One bit. And you lack a working humour detector. I miss RandFan. I hope he's OK.
 
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OK, let's look forward to funk de fino's links and data about the reasons for Caracas crime rates and the obligations of the Caracas mayor and continue discussing then. The debunking of your "no means no" argument, the slogan of the again defeated venezuelen opposition btw, you can find in several posts in this thread.
 
Childlike Empress said:
OK, let's look forward to funk de fino's links and data about the reasons for Caracas crime rates and the obligations of the Caracas mayor and continue discussing then. The debunking of your "no means no" argument, the slogan of the again defeated venezuelen opposition btw, you can find in several posts in this thread.
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Of course you would not claim it was the Mayors responsibility without checking it was. Would you? I am not making any claims about crime rates I am just looking at your claim about the police.

He had to work from home as do many of his officials. I'll let you try and find out why.

And just to add, he changed the consitution to introduce term limits and then tried to change it again to take them away and when defeated, he then brought a referendum again despite the constitution saying he cannot.
 
I asked you to provide further information about that. Apparently you are unwilling to do that. I know that the Venezuelan police force is regional. You said they have changed it. Provide evidence.
 
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