Send in the tanks! (Chavez)

[funk de fino]

what is Obamas evidence?
South america has made great progress in many things, especially they are working together , atleast the leftist leaders. planing to creat their own bank etc.

Especially in Venezuela many many things have improved.

Makes no difference. You have made a false claim and then posted an article which showed it to be false.

 

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you do know that Cuba is not Venezuela, isnt it?

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Of course i do, its another example of where Obama is nothing like Bush. You know, like you claimed he was no change?

I'm goingto post this again just for you.

The Venezuelan leader said that Obama is following orders from dark forces inside "the empire," as he refers to the United States. "If he doesn't obey the orders of the empire, they'll kill him," Chávez said, without offering details or proof.

OK for Hugo then eh?

 

[DC]

No, not just mine but all the other people online claiming it. You know very well the list has been used to persecute people and Chavez himself even admitted it.

So, flight 93 was shot down, alot people claim that online, and also some witnesses and even Rummsfeld admited it.....

what where Chavez exact words?

You know about the Tascon list now, but you did not before. Either that or you knew but you kept quite aboiut this gross infringement of people rights?

Someone who thinks they can pontificate about how great Chavez is should really know the whole story prior to kissing his arse so much.

lol you now blatantly lie......
why is that needed?
but hey, when your ego is in need of it.

I didnt know anything about Chavez and the rest of the world, before i met you on JREF.

Unfortunately for you, I knew more then you.

im pretty sure that you indeed do belive to know more as me

Again you have to resort to your lie to makwe you feel better. I rely on nothing any western media told me about Chavez. I got it direct from people from the country and from other blogs which were from ordinary venezuelans.

so you dont get news from your newspaper and TV station? you dont read the articles there.... okey.

You then had the gall to use a western media source to try and back up claims about Obama. What a complete and utter hypocrite!!

why? the article says what i wanted to point out

I have alrady said that Chavez has done some good but he is spoiling it all and looking more like a dictator in waiting everyday. The people were all very much behind Sdaddam and Mugabe one day as well you know.

Chavez is still loved by the Majority. so what should he care what impression he makes on you?

Unfortunately in this forum people only seem to post about bad things. Chavez does himself no favours with his rants and actions that make people who would already have preconceptions think even less of him. His attack on Obama just adds to these feelings.

yeah i think also he should not so often go into rethorics. but he is not a diplomat, and alot venezuelans love him because he shows balls.

btw, like Obama, so did also Chavez atack, but also point out that there should be talks.

 

[DC]

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Of course i do, its another example of where Obama is nothing like Bush. You know, like you claimed he was no change?

I'm goingto post this again just for you.



OK for Hugo then eh?

Oabama is Change in many thing compared to bush.

But claiming that Chavez did interrupt progress is just false and even a lie.
there are many projects Chavez and other south american leaders are involved.

im sure you know all of them, as you know more than i do

 

[funk de fino]

Oabama is Change in many thing compared to bush.

But claiming that Chavez did interrupt progress is just false and even a lie.
there are many projects Chavez and other south american leaders are involved.

im sure you know all of them, as you know more than i do

The Venezuelan leader said that Obama is following orders from dark forces inside "the empire," as he refers to the United States. "If he doesn't obey the orders of the empire, they'll kill him," Chávez said, without offering details or proof.

And again

 

[funk de fino]

So, flight 93 was shot down, alot people claim that online, and also some witnesses and even Rummsfeld admited it.....

No, it was not and there are no witness to a shootdown. You are lying again. You have to beleive that the Tascon list was not bad dont you? Yoiu have to believe that the other list is not bad? You have to believe that he does not support FARC. You ignore all the bad stuff. I do not.

what where Chavez exact words?

You know fine well and I gave you a nice link to a site which tells you all about stuff like this.

lol you now blatantly lie......
why is that needed?
but hey, when your ego is in need of it.

Oh, really, you had no idea what the TASCON liast was used for and I had to tell you.

I didnt know anything about Chavez and the rest of the world, before i met you on JREF.


im pretty sure that you indeed do belive to know more as me

If you say so, not my problem though.

so you dont get news from your newspaper and TV station? you dont read the articles there.... okey.

Not about venezuela i dont.

why? the article says what i wanted to point out

Except it did the opposite.

Chavez is still loved by the Majority. so what should he care what impression he makes on you?

Its you that seems to cry when people criticize him.

yeah i think also he should not so often go into rethorics. but he is not a diplomat, and alot venezuelans love him because he shows balls.

btw, like Obama, so did also Chavez atack, but also point out that there should be talks.

Did I say he never? Saddam showed balls, look where that got a lot of his people.

But claiming that Chavez did interrupt progress is just false and even a lie

Its an opinion. I think he has interupted progress in the oil industry in venezuela. Care to disagree? You may disagree but its not a lie.

 

[DC]

No, it was not and there are no witness to a shootdown. You are lying again. You have to beleive that the Tascon list was not bad dont you? Yoiu have to believe that the other list is not bad? You have to believe that he does not support FARC. You ignore all the bad stuff. I do not.



You know fine well and I gave you a nice link to a site which tells you all about stuff like this.



Oh, really, you had no idea what the TASCON liast was used for and I had to tell you.




If you say so, not my problem though.




Not about venezuela i dont.




Except it did the opposite.



Its you that seems to cry when people criticize him.



Did I say he never? Saddam showed balls, look where that got a lot of his people.



Its an opinion. I think he has interupted progress in the oil industry in venezuela. Care to disagree? You may disagree but its not a lie.

I dont ignore the bad things, but i dont overweigh it. Nor do i belive every claim made.
and you seem to become senile. the first time when we talked about the Tascon list i said already that it is wrong.
But you would like to make it something completly diffrent, a blacklist that was used systematicly by the Chavistas. but that was not the case, there where indeed some people that did use the list as a Blacklist.
and what said Chavez about it? what should be done with that list?

i do think they have alot problems with the voters lists, still from the decades of the corrupt 2 party system in the hands of AD and COPEI. and theyr solutions wasnt really good ideas, especially how it was handled.

the oil industry did not grow like it was expected by Oil experts.
But what was the goal of the Bolivarian Movement? geting asmuch oil as possible in a short time? or use it wisely and on long terms?

 

[funk de fino]

I dont ignore the bad things, but i dont overweigh it. Nor do i belive every claim made.and you seem to become senile. the first time when we talked about the Tascon list i said already that it is wrong.

I had to pull that from you. You knew nothing about what the list was used for.

But you would like to make it something completly diffrent, a blacklist that was used systematicly by the Chavistas. but that was not the case,

Yes, it was used. People were sacked, turned down for jobs, not given credit at the banks and so on. It was used to persecute people who dared to vote against Chavez and he knew about it.

there where indeed some people that did use the list as a Blacklist. and what said Chavez about it? what should be done with that list?

He said this after it had been used for too long. He knew previous to saying this what it had been used for. Tascon is one of his main men. The list did not have to be used forever to be effective in threatening the people not to sign or vote against him again.

i do think they have alot problems with the voters lists, still from the decades of the corrupt 2 party system in the hands of AD and COPEI. and theyr solutions wasnt really good ideas, especially how it was handled.

Wasnt really good ideas? Basic human rights abuses if you ask me. You cannot vote privately. That is not democracy its intimidation.

the oil industry did not grow like it was expected by Oil experts.
But what was the goal of the Bolivarian Movement? geting asmuch oil as possible in a short time? or use it wisely and on long terms?

Their goal was to get their people in charge in the oil industry regardless of how much experience they had. This led to the strikes. This is perhaps what Obama was meaning, he may have meant something else but you have jumped right in and said he was telling lies.

The Bolivarian movement rely on american companies for the oil. Hypocrites much? My company operates there.

 

[DC]

I had to pull that from you. You knew nothing about what the list was used for.

Yes, it was used. People were sacked, turned down for jobs, not given credit at the banks and so on. It was used to persecute people who dared to vote against Chavez and he knew about it.

I said already last time, that it was wrong. And how do you know Chavez knew about it? btw there are also claims that private corps and banks used it against chavista.

He said this after it had been used for too long. He knew previous to saying this what it had been used for. Tascon is one of his main men. The list did not have to be used forever to be effective in threatening the people not to sign or vote against him again.

how do you know he knew? Tascon was one of his main men you ment i guess

Wasnt really good ideas? Basic human rights abuses if you ask me. You cannot vote privately. That is not democracy its intimidation.

i said aready in the last discusion about the tascon list, that it is indeed undemocratic.

Their goal was to get their people in charge in the oil industry regardless of how much experience they had. This led to the strikes. This is perhaps what Obama was meaning, he may have meant something else but you have jumped right in and said he was telling lies.

The Bolivarian movement rely on american companies for the oil. Hypocrites much? My company operates there.

Chavez promised to fight corruption, that was what the PDVSA mamagement feared. and Ortega called up to overtrow the government.... this led to the strike.

But in difference to pre Bolivarian movement , now you work for them to far better conditions for them and it is more evenly spread.

But the loss in experiance was not hindering, as they have to cut production now...... oilexpert much?

 

[funk de fino]

I said already last time, that it was wrong. And how do you know Chavez knew about it? btw there are also claims that private corps and banks used it against chavista.

The link I gave you has all the evidence about the fact he knew. You will be able to give me evidence of chavistas being persecuted because of the Tascon list then eh?

how do you know he knew? Tascon was one of his main men you ment i guess

See above it is all in the link I gave you. I guess you did not bother to read anything on the site or watch the videos?

i said aready in the last discusion about the tascon list, that it is indeed undemocratic.

Good, but prior to me mentioning it you said nothing. What about the Maisanta list?

Chavez promised to fight corruption, that was what the PDVSA mamagement feared. and Ortega called up to overtrow the government.... this led to the strike.

No, they feared for their jobs. In fact about 18,000 had good reason to fear.

But in difference to pre Bolivarian movement , now you work for them to far better conditions for them and it is more evenly spread.

No, we work with incompetants who are ruining the oil industry over there.

the loss in experiance was not hindering, as they have to cut production now...... oilexpert much?

Yes, it was hindering. Their production plummeted while the price of oil rocketed. They have to cut now because the price of oil is not sustainable. I would avoid this as you have less clue about this than the rest of the stuff.

 

[DC]

The link I gave you has all the evidence about the fact he knew. You will be able to give me evidence of chavistas being persecuted because of the Tascon list then eh?



See above it is all in the link I gave you. I guess you did not bother to read anything on the site or watch the videos?



Good, but prior to me mentioning it you said nothing. What about the Maisanta list?



No, they feared for their jobs. In fact about 18,000 had good reason to fear.



No, we work with incompetants who are ruining the oil industry over there.



Yes, it was hindering. Their production plummeted while the price of oil rocketed. They have to cut now because the price of oil is not sustainable. I would avoid this as you have less clue about this than the rest of the stuff.

you got that link again? i cant find the link.

i linked to the Observer because i got tols snopes is good, and snopes linked to that article
and there are many other sources that claim the same, and provide evidence.

did you listen to the recordings from the Snipers ?
did you read the CIA documents?

you still claim it was not linked to the USA and Bush?

they are not ruining the oil industry. they do the things the way they want.
and they did the right thing, would they have invested in more Oil production, they would have to cut production even more.

oil expert much?

 

[funk de fino]

you got that link again? i cant find the link.

i linked to the Observer because i got tols snopes is good, and snopes linked to that article
and there are many other sources that claim the same, and provide evidence.

Why dont you go back and get it yourself? Did you not make it a favourite so you could research it?

You linked to western media after railing at everyone here for listening to biased western media?? When can we use it and when not?? You linked to a UK based paper, if I link to the same paper when it says bad stuff about Chavez guess what you will say?

No evidence yet then?

did you listen to the recordings from the Snipers ?
did you read the CIA documents?

you still claim it was not linked to the USA and Bush?

Prove that Bush was involved in instigating the coup.

they are not ruining the oil industry. they do the things the way they want.and they did the right thing, would they have invested in more Oil production, they would have to cut production even more.oil expert much?

Yes, they are. They are doing things badly. If you knew anything about it you would not be posting this tripe. Making bad decisions about the oil industry then being saved because of a global collapse and fall in the price of oil many years later is not an oil plan. Its not about investing its about running the industry. They did not have experience in doing it and made bad mistakes. The price of oil will come back up and the plants and equipment still will need briniging up to standard and the people will still need the experince to run it. For an economy that relies on oil it has been a huge mistake.

Pissing off exxon has been a huge mistake also.

 

[funk de fino]

because we are now allowed to use the UK boradsheets here is another wee linkie for you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jan/12/franciscorodriguezonchavez

 

[DC]

Why dont you go back and get it yourself? Did you not make it a favourite so you could research it?

You linked to western media after railing at everyone here for listening to biased western media?? When can we use it and when not?? You linked to a UK based paper, if I link to the same paper when it says bad stuff about Chavez guess what you will say?

No evidence yet then?

no i didnt save the link, can you please post it again?

Prove that Bush was involved in instigating the coup.

Eva Gollinger and others did a great job proving the US involvment in the coup.

Yes, they are. They are doing things badly. If you knew anything about it you would not be posting this tripe. Making bad decisions about the oil industry then being saved because of a global collapse and fall in the price of oil many years later is not an oil plan. Its not about investing its about running the industry. They did not have experience in doing it and made bad mistakes. The price of oil will come back up and the plants and equipment still will need briniging up to standard and the people will still need the experince to run it. For an economy that relies on oil it has been a huge mistake.

Pissing off exxon has been a huge mistake also.

They will learn it and soon be expirianced.

Exxon beeing pissed of is kinda laughable, Total, BP and Statoil for example accpeted the offers.
Exxon wanted to much.

 

[DC]

because we are now allowed to use the UK boradsheets here is another wee linkie for you.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2007/jan/12/franciscorodriguezonchavez

aah Rodríguez, be carefull with his numbers, they have been debunked

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/literacy_2008_05.pdf

 

[funk de fino]

no i didnt save the link, can you please post it again?

Did you not post it recently yourself?

Eva Gollinger and others did a great job proving the US involvment in the coup.

Not what was claimed but even so you have brought no evidence.

They will learn it and soon be expirianced.

Does not excuse the lamentable treatment of the workers by Chavez. he broke labour laws when he sacked them and also held back pensions and severance pay. Is that fair?

Exxon beeing pissed of is kinda laughable, Total, BP and Statoil for example accpeted the offers.Exxon wanted to much.

Exxon wanted a fair price that took into account future profts for their investements. This is standard ppractice in commerce. Chavez refused and said take it or leave it. It would not be laughable of you worked for Exxon would it?

 

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aah Rodríguez, be carefull with his numbers, they have been debunked

http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/literacy_2008_05.pdf

One part has been, what about the rest? Anything to comment on about his other claims?

Again and again you focus on one small part and ignore others.

 

[DC]

Did you not post it recently yourself?

whish post of mine was it?

Not what was claimed but even so you have brought no evidence.

www.venezuelafoia.info is a good start.

Does not excuse the lamentable treatment of the workers by Chavez. he broke labour laws when he sacked them and also held back pensions and severance pay. Is that fair?

no i think both sides acted unfair. and sacking them was not the right decision.

Exxon wanted a fair price that took into account future profts for their investements. This is standard ppractice in commerce. Chavez refused and said take it or leave it. It would not be laughable of you worked for Exxon would it?

Exxon wanted WHAT? Fair price? you are not an oilexpert you are a thief.
how much did exxon want exactly?

 

[DC]

One part has been, what about the rest? Anything to comment on about his other claims?

Again and again you focus on one small part and ignore others.

well he goes then on about Peru and Argentina, how they got reelected because they brought economys miracles. thanks to WorldBank and IMF.

maybe you should read about the poverty in Peru for example and the unequality and how slow the trickle down tactic works. especially outside Lima

while this source is not realy objective. it is telling a little diffrent story than wath Rodriguez wrote.

http://web.worldbank.org/WBSITE/EXT...piPK:216618~theSitePK:430367~isCURL:Y,00.html

 

[funk de fino]

whish post of mine was it?

Post # 479

www.venezuelafoia.info is a good start.

If you like reading state sponsored propoganda it is.

no i think both sides acted unfair. and sacking them was not the right decision.

You disagree with a workers right to strike? You agree that they were unfairly and illegally sacked and also that it is unfair to keep severance pay and pensions?

Exxon wanted WHAT? Fair price? you are not an oilexpert you are a thief. how much did exxon want exactly?

Standard practice in the oil indusrtry is the future profits clauses. The other oil companies took his money and run because they did not want to fight him. Exxon took him on and showed the bully boy he cannot get his own way all the time. I guess you would apply Chavez tactics o all commerce would you? Like the music biz for example? Artists would get no profits for any future sales?