School shooting Florida

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smartcooky said:
I used to be a teacher and I am also ex-military, I own guns and I know how to handle them. If I was a teacher in an American school, and I was asked to carry a gun, I would absolutely refuse. If this stupid NRA/Trump plan were to ever come to pass and we ended up with teachers carrying guns in my school, I would resign on the spot and either find another vocation, or move to a country where sanity prevails, and there are sane and sensible gun laws.
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Seems I am not alone in this

https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...d4d462a1921_story.html?utm_term=.0c872778b06f

“I am a combat veteran of the war in Vietnam,” a teacher from Pennsylvania who retired after 32 years in the classroom wrote to me. Ed Mihalacki is a guy who understands how a human head responds when it is targeted by M-16 automatic rifles, M-14s, M-60 machine guns, .45-caliber pistols and .38-caliber pistols.

“With that in mind . . . I would NEVER carry a weapon into a classroom. EVER.”
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“It’s not as simple as just putting a pistol in a school,” he said. “There are enormous issues.”

First, it takes at least 100 hours of work before an officer who is trained to use weapons in crisis situations is ready for action. This goes beyond a gun, bullets and a paper target, the trainer said.

“The building blocks to put round [of ammo] on a threat — we don’t call them a target, we call them a threat — involve more than the fundamentals of shooting, which are sight picture, grip, trigger control,” he said. “When we give our officers and agents guns, every situation [he or she] is in is a shoot-or-don’t-shoot situation.”

It is not just target practice. It is about assessing the scene and knowing whether it is really a situation that calls for gunfire.

That is a complex and sensitive issue law enforcement officers across the nation have wrangled with for ages.
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I think you will find large numbers of teachers, perhaps as many as 35% who will see this as a last straw and will leave the profession rather than work in an environment where other teachers are force to carry guns. That is in a profession where there is already a shortage of numbers.
 
Wayward son said:
He engaged the shooter WHEN there were like a dozen other heavily armed officers (who were actually the ones who killed him). The officer here waited for other officers.

(The article you posted claims that "Kevin Vickers, 58, confronted Michael Zehaf-Bibeau alone". This is known to be completely untrue.)
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You said that already
 
Part of me thinks the officer should have done more, but overall I know I'm in no position to judge him.

https://www.aol.com/article/news/20...ons-in-the-parkland-school-shooting/23369378/

"When I was in Afghanistan we had a platoon in my battalion lose a guy during a shootout, and the whole team froze," Bethea said. "These were trained airborne infantrymen whose fellow soldier's life was in danger. They eventually got back in the fight, but yeah."

All this talk of arming teachers and making schools more like prisons sounds insane to me. I wouldn't want to send my kids to a school like that. There has to be a better way of stopping this madness.
 
Yeggster said:
I stand by the claim, pistol vs rifle ... the issue is if he "felt outgunned" that's what I'm addressing ...
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The issue is that a trained, experienced -- and armed -- police officer did not even attempt to confront a man who was actively killing children. The cop didn't have to do a kamikaze rush. If he had walked into the building and shouted "Stop! Police!," that might have been enough to draw the killer's attention away from the children. The cop could have taken cover inside the building and waited for the killer to come looking for him. That might have distracted the guy for a couple minutes until other police arrived, or the guy might have stopped shooting and set out to escape, as he ultimately did, or the cop might have been able to fire from a secure position. Doing nothing was the worst option, and at least some kids are dead because of it. And it doesn't matter what civilian couch potatoes think; the guy's own department suspended him for dereliction of duty.
 
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Steve said:
Situation 1 - Man with a rifle is shooting people. Man with a pistol takes action and attempts to stop him.

Situation 2 - Man with a rifle is shooting people. Man with a pistol takes no action and does not attempt to stop him.

Without adding extraneous info, do you disagree with this comparison?
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Without adding other info the comparison is completely inaccurate and stupid.

Situation 1 - Man with rifle who had shot and killed someone, was trapped, cornered and almost completely secured by a tactical unit and a security team about 10 minutes after the initial shooting. Man with rifle was shooting at said tactical unit which in turn killed him - shooting him 31 times. Another man with a pistol, who was unseen by the gunman, also engaged him. Danger to said man - not high. Aid to said man if he happened to get harmed during his actions would have been available almost immediately.

Situation 2 - Man with an AR15 is shooting people. Exact location unknown, situation largely unknown. Man with pistol waits several minutes for back up to arrive. Danger to said man if he engaged the shooter - extremely high. Time until aid to said man if he happened to get harmed during engagement - very lengthy.
 
Bob001 said:
The issue is that a trained, experienced -- and armed -- police officer did not even attempt to confront a man who was actively killing children. The cop didn't have to do a kamikaze rush. If he had walked into the building and shouted "Stop! Police!," that might have been enough to draw the killer's attention away from the children. The cop could have taken cover inside the building and waited for the killer to come looking for him. That might have distracted the guy for a couple minutes until other police arrived, or the guy might have stopped shooting and set out to escape, as he ultimately did, or the cop might have been able to fire from a secure position. Doing nothing was the worst option, and at least some kids are dead because of it. And it doesn't matter what civilian couch potatoes think; the guy's own department suspended him for dereliction of duty.
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I agree ... well put!
 
Checkmite said:
Cruz didn't have body armor, though; it is apparently highly unusual for a school shooter to wear any kind of body armor.
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Yes he did. He wore it during the shooting and then ditched it when he walked out with the students. He ditched his rifle, his body armor and a backpack full of ammo (loaded magazines ready to go).
 
We don't know if Officer Peterson had a semi-automatic pistol or a revolver pistol. A firefight could have been semi-automatic rifle versus semi-automatic pistol. Lots of folks in this thread seem to be assuming he had a revolver but we don't really know. It seems unlikely that he would have had as much ammo as Cruz had in his backpack. For what it's worth.
 
MikeG said:
Brits are shaking their heads in bemusement at the idea that a school has an armed guard in the first place. What sort of mess is it when schools need an armed guard?
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There's another negative effect about police officers in schools, kids who would have been suspended for something are instead arrested and charged with crimes. School to prison pipeline
The school-to-prison pipeline: an epidemic that is plaguing schools across the nation. Far too often, students are suspended, expelled or even arrested for minor offenses that leave visits to the principal’s office a thing of the past. Statistics reflect that these policies disproportionately target students of color and those with a history of abuse, neglect, poverty or learning disabilities.
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It's a twofur, supports the private prison industry and the gun industry.
 
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CNN just reported that when Coral Springs police arrived there were 4 Broward deputies on scene who had set up a perimeter and had not entered the building, nor did they go into the building with the Coral Springs officers. I think Peterson is being scapegoated for what was a massive problem in his department in terms of leadership and policy directives.
 
Rolfe said:
This one seems unusual in that the shooter is still alive. What happens next?
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Really? He gets prosecuted, convicted and sentenced, most likely either to life in prison or death, unless he makes a deal. His own lawyer has reportedly offered a guilty plea in exchange for taking the death penalty off the table. There is no question about his guilt. The best he can hope for is the possibility of parole decades down the road -- and that's not very likely.
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...ol-shooting-death-penalty-20180216-story.html
 
mike81 said:
...All this talk of arming teachers and making schools more like prisons sounds insane to me. I wouldn't want to send my kids to a school like that. There has to be a better way of stopping this madness.
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The presence of law enforcement at a school in noway meets the definition of 'prison.'

Skeptic Ginger said:
There's another negative effect about police officers in schools, kids who would have been suspended for something are instead arrested and charged with crimes. School to prison pipeline

It's a twofur, supports the private prison industry and the gun industry.
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We don't have to abandon school resource officers now that we've identified the school to prison pipeline. Awareness is key to changing policies to bring about desired change.

My personal experience with the DARE officer at my school was beneficial. Interacting with law enforcement in a positive setting is a benefit for the community.
 
William Parcher said:
We don't know if Officer Peterson had a semi-automatic pistol or a revolver pistol. A firefight could have been semi-automatic rifle versus semi-automatic pistol. Lots of folks in this thread seem to be assuming he had a revolver but we don't really know. It seems unlikely that he would have had as much ammo as Cruz had in his backpack. For what it's worth.
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Pictures on the department web site show the officers with semi-autos. U.S. police started moving to Glocks, Sigs etc. decades ago, often with various financial incentives. It would be rare to find a police officer in an urban area packing a .38 revolver today.
http://www.sheriff.org/Pages/Home.aspx
 
crescent said:
This gives a quick summary of the NRA's proposal to make schools safer through architectural design:

The NRA’s Plan to “Harden” Schools Is Terrifying

Big fence, no trees, no windows, no parking lot, ballistics glass on doors.
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So turn them into child prisons essentially. You have to love chutzpah of advocating expanding the police state and the same time you advocate buying guns to protect yourself from the police state.
 
People are judging the deputy.

training is all very well but until the bullets start fying you don't know how you will react.
You hope you will perform and be as brave as you want to be but until you have been under fire you don't know.
 
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