School shooting Florida

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quadraginta said:
I think at this time we should say that it is confirmed by at least one eyewitness, a high school student named Hannah Carbocci.

What you are asking for is additional confirmation.

I'm not sure why you see fit to cast such doubt on her reporting of what is a relatively trivial point. Cruz wouldn't even have had to be aiming at the walls for bullets to go through them, all he would have had to do is miss something which happened to have a wall behind it.

A typical school corridor wall is going to be rated for 1 hr. fire protection, and if it is a standard stud wall with sheetrock that means it will have 1 layer of 5/8" sheetrock on each side. That wouldn't even slow down a round from an AR15 noticeably.

Considering how many rounds he is supposed to have fired I'd be far more surprised if some bullets didn't go through walls.
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I'm not going to consider what Hannah said to be a confirmation. I'm going to call it a claim. I'm going to be a skeptic presented with the statements (claims) of highly stressed high school kids.

ABC 7 News said:
“He just shattered our window of our classroom and started shooting into the window and he shot thru the walls,” Hannah Carbocci said.
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What may have happened is that Cruz fired into a classroom through a window. A bullet lodged into a wall but didn't pass through the wall. Hannah saw the hole. She then said that Cruz was shooting through walls.

Sometimes witnesses make mistakes. I expect that we will learn from investigators if any of Cruz's bullets did pass through walls. I'm just not there yet. It's okay if you are.
 
BobTheCoward said:
Depends who on this forum is making the law.
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Okay, you've officially lost me. I thought I knew what you were talking about, but now I find myself at sea.

I thought we were talking about America. We're talking about this forum?

(I just had an amusing vision of Darat snapping and committing non-ethnic-specific "genocide" one day by banning everybody's accounts.)
 
BobTheCoward said:
The example was the Maasai. You gave no reason for taking them. In my reply I explicitly said with the intent to attack their mental health as a group. That is genocide by the link you provided (and I quoted repeatedly).
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No, it isn't. You deliberately omitted this wording from the UN definition:

A mental element: the "intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such"
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Skeptic Ginger said:
Want to argue bullets didn't go through walls? Read this...
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That's a story about a doctor treating the wounds created by the AR-15. He doesn't say that Cruz's bullets passed through any walls. The doctor wasn't at the high school.

We are going to have to wait to learn if it actually happened.
 
MikeG said:
No, it isn't. You deliberately omitted this wording from the UN definition:
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Okay. So you are read the scenario...they are taking the Spears from the Maasai to explicitly inflict mental harm on the group...but not for the purposes of destroying them.

So I will modify it.


Taking Spears from the Maasai with the intent to destroy them by inflicting serious mental harm is genocide.

So intent on taking the Spears matter. But taking the Spears can be genocide.
 
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isissxn said:
I can dispute what I see as offensive, unnecessary rhetoric all day long. No one needs to agree, but I thought it should be put out there for consideration.

"Within America, there exists a problem of individuals on a large scale valuing personally-owned weapons above human life. This is not something I can understand." There, that makes the exact same point without the sweeping, othering language.
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It also makes it sanitized and easy to ignore. And Art wasn't specific enough. The problem is not with all Americans, it's with American men.
 
Fudbucker said:
It also makes it sanitized and easy to ignore. And Art wasn't specific enough. The problem is not with all Americans, it's with American men.
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Wording objections so that they don't insult allies is sanitizing the problem? We'll have to disagree on that.

As to your second statement, I don't think I understand it.
 
MikeG said:
Is it? Seriously, I've never heard of anyone doing this. Not saying you're wrong.
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One of our local Scout groups has an air-rifle range and that's pretty popular with the kids.
 
isissxn said:
Wording objections so that they don't insult allies is sanitizing the problem? We'll have to disagree on that.

As to your second statement, I don't think I understand it.
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Who commits nearly all these mass shootings? Violent crimes? Crimes in general?

It's not women.
 
isissxn said:
Okay, you've officially lost me. I thought I knew what you were talking about, but now I find myself at sea.

I thought we were talking about America. We're talking about this forum?

(I just had an amusing vision of Darat snapping and committing non-ethnic-specific "genocide" one day by banning everybody's accounts.)
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I meant that there are some people on the forum that if they ran the government, and if gun owners (specifically hand guns with the intent of self defense) were an ethnic group (which they are not), some of them would be passing gun laws with the intent to destroy them.

I like to thank MikeG for helping me clarify. I was playing fast and loose without all the appropriate caveats.
 
Fudbucker said:
Who commits nearly all these mass shootings? Violent crimes? Crimes in general?

It's not women.
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Okay... But the original statement over which we are quibbling wasn't about the killers themselves. It was about the general views of the American population. And any statement that lumped all American men in with those men would be rude and fallacious as well.
 
BobTheCoward said:
I meant that there are some people on the forum that if they ran the government, and if gun owners (specifically hand guns with the intent of self defense) were an ethnic group (which they are not), some of them would be passing gun laws with the intent to destroy them.

I like to thank MikeG for helping me clarify. I was playing fast and loose without all the appropriate caveats.
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Even by your standards, that's pretty lame, Bob.
 
Bob001 said:
That's a problem that would be fairly easy to solve, at least in many buildings. Keep all doors except the main entrance locked to outside access, with alarms that would sound if opened from the inside (but still open to exit in emergencies). Keep front doors locked outside of the regular student arrival times, so visitors would have to be buzzed in from the office (which should have cameras on all the doors). That's not much different from what every movie theater does and it wouldn't cost much.
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The problem is the kids ... they don't care and prop open the doors, the door alarms just run continuously until classes start and someone has to go reset all the alarms and close the doors.

Unless the system is backed up with authority (AND ACTION) to suspend all students who break the rules ... it won't work, and look what happens when you suspend a student.
 
BobTheCoward said:
I meant that there are some people on the forum that if they ran the government, and if gun owners (specifically hand guns with the intent of self defense) were an ethnic group (which they are not), some of them would be passing gun laws with the intent to destroy them.

I like to thank MikeG for helping me clarify. I was playing fast and loose without all the appropriate caveats.
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Okay, I see what you're saying. I don't agree, but we are back on the same page.
 
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