School shooting Florida

[BobTheCoward]

I wonder what's the problem with arms (or the militia) being "well-regulated"?

Because that line doesn't limit the second clause at all.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I think the Founding Fathers would say that because the US has a standing army, we need the right to bear arms more than ever. However, that isn't to say that it makes sense and, more importantly, having a gun in the trunk of your car is not exercising your "right to bear arms", as it was understood by the authors of the second amendment.

I'm very sympathetic to some arguments related to the importance of the second amendment and its role in resisting tyrannical governments. Private ownership of AR-15s would not achieve that role.

Exactly we need to do much more to support domestic terrorism to fulfill the true intent of the second amendment.

 

[Darat]

Exactly we need to do much more to support domestic terrorism to fulfill the true intent of the second amendment.

Is this called displacement? Talk about something else to avoid what needs to be talked about. No matter what the founding fathers said kids are being killed now.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Is this called displacement? Talk about something else to avoid what needs to be talked about. No matter what the founding fathers said kids are being killed now.

Look either you recognize the divine inspiration of the founders or you don't. They always believed political violence was an important regular part of a functioning democrazy. The constitution is written for that express purpose. So either the founders were wrong, or we need to do more to encourage political violence in this country. And suggesting the founders might be wrong is heresy.

You have to learn to think like a true american.

 

[Belz...]

Look either you recognize the divine inspiration of the founders or you don't.

Yeah and clearly you just want to tear up the constitution and turn the US into an authoritarian regime.

 

[IanS]

On youtube there is a channel about british muzzleloaders though he also does a lot with cartridge rifles. He has videos on how he reloads his lee- Metford rifle at home. And his shooting videos seem to be in the countryside not a specific organized range.

I haven't seen the video, but in the UK you can shoot on farmland with the landowners permission, i.e. to shoot things like rabbits, pigeons or some other animals which I think the shooters are claiming to eat (why not just go to Waitrose and buy the food...you get a much bigger choice!).

 

[Pterodactyl]

I haven't seen the video, but in the UK you can shoot on farmland with the landowners permission, i.e. to shoot things like rabbits, pigeons or some other animals which I think the shooters are claiming to eat (why not just go to Waitrose and buy the food...you get a much bigger choice!).

Because to some people, life is not just one big quest for convenience.

 

[MikeG]

I haven't seen the video, but in the UK you can shoot on farmland with the landowners permission, i.e. to shoot things like rabbits, pigeons or some other animals which I think the shooters are claiming to eat (why not just go to Waitrose and buy the food...you get a much bigger choice!).

If you buy game (pheasant, partridge, rabbit etc) in Waitrose, how do you think it got there?

 

[The Don]

Because to some people, life is not just one big quest for convenience.

Exactly, some people actively enjoy killing things.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I haven't seen the video, but in the UK you can shoot on farmland with the landowners permission, i.e. to shoot things like rabbits, pigeons or some other animals which I think the shooters are claiming to eat (why not just go to Waitrose and buy the food...you get a much bigger choice!).

Oh he only target shoots, focusing on getting the best accuracy out of his martini henry and such.

 

[quadraginta]

I wonder what's the problem with arms (or the militia) being "well-regulated"?

It negatively affects sales figures.

 

[quadraginta]

I haven't seen the video, but in the UK you can shoot on farmland with the landowners permission, i.e. to shoot things like rabbits, pigeons or some other animals which I think the shooters are claiming to eat (why not just go to Waitrose and buy the food...you get a much bigger choice!).

And miss the culinary delight of picking buckshot out of your dinner?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

As well as discouraging treatment for mental health. And there is the side point that what actual diagnosis these individuals are supposed to have other than being angry mostly white men, which is not a recognized diagnosis.

The whole mental health argument is simply and argument from incredulity.

There is more than one category of mental illness with these shooters and angry white men is only one category.

 

[ponderingturtle]

There is more than one category of mental illness with these shooters and angry white men is only one category.

Then provide some actual diagnosises tied to actual shooters. And of course you would expect a non trivial percentage to have mental problems as 20% of the population does in any given year.

 

[IanS]

Because to some people, life is not just one big quest for convenience.

Then do something more constructive with your time. Do something more educational. Something a bit harder than just trying kill things from 100 ft away! ... learn to play a musical instrument ... go and study for a maths or physics degree ... go and help poor and underprivileged or disabled people ... almost anything is better and far more challenging, skilful and educational than firing a gun at an unsuspecting rabbit (or an unsuspecting kid in a school).

 

[Darat]

If you buy game (pheasant, partridge, rabbit etc) in Waitrose, how do you think it got there?

Carried by fair maidens upon silver platters?

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

Then provide some actual diagnosises tied to actual shooters. And of course you would expect a non trivial percentage to have mental problems as 20% of the population does in any given year.

I'm not sure of the relevance of your answer to my point. The Gabby Giffords, Aurora movie theater and the Virginia Tech shooters all had some form of schizophrenia. That doesn't mean all or even most people with schizophrenia are dangerous. But in some cases their mental illness is a direct cause of the delusions that lead them to murder.

The 'blame everyone else for one's troubles' shooter that goes postal, or the jealous asshat that shoots up his ex and half her family plus a couple neighbors are in a different category.

The bullied/unlikeable kid that gets even shooting up a school is another separate category.

There may be overlap.

The idea there are not behavior/mental illness categories here and it's just a coincidental finding seems rather oblivious to the evidence.

I'm not saying most of these shooters bear no fault because they are mentally ill. That's a different subject.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

A Founding Father would realize that the US has a standing army and therefore doesn't need a right to bear arms anymore.

Yeah because our Founding Fathers were all about all the power being in a centralized Federal level army and not the populace.

Hey, maybe what the founding fathers wanted is no longer relevant. Isn't that the point of a democracy?

I think the Founding Fathers would say that because the US has a standing army, we need the right to bear arms more than ever. However, that isn't to say that it makes sense and, more importantly, having a gun in the trunk of your car is not exercising your "right to bear arms", as it was understood by the authors of the second amendment.

I'm very sympathetic to some arguments related to the importance of the second amendment and its role in resisting tyrannical governments. Private ownership of AR-15s would not achieve that role.

I agree. After all, many of them were slave owners.

I wonder what's the problem with arms (or the militia) being "well-regulated"?

It negatively affects sales figures.

This exchange bears repeating, I found each post had relevant points.

 

[Belz...]

Then do something more constructive with your time. Do something more educational. Something a bit harder than just trying kill things from 100 ft away! ... learn to play a musical instrument ... go and study for a maths or physics degree ... go and help poor and underprivileged or disabled people ... almost anything is better and far more challenging, skilful and educational than firing a gun at an unsuspecting rabbit (or an unsuspecting kid in a school).

For one, they could use a bow and arrow. Not only is it more challenging, but you won't have to deal with harmful chemicals or metal bits in your food.

 

[ponderingturtle]

I'm not sure of the relevance of your answer to my point. The Gabby Giffords, Aurora movie theater and the Virginia Tech shooters all had some form of schizophrenia. That doesn't mean all or even most people with schizophrenia are dangerous. But in some cases their mental illness is a direct cause of the delusions that lead them to murder.

Got a source for the Virginia tech one, his history was depression and anxiety I see no form of schizophrenia.

I'm not saying most of these shooters bear no fault because they are mentally ill. That's a different subject.

But while there might be a slighly more prevalent schizophrenia in shooters that is certainly not the majority of shooters and I see no evidence that they have some mental health disorder at the root of their actions.