School shooting Florida

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sadhatter said:
Does that perfect sense of community not extend to knife crime?

Seems odd you can magically puff away gun crime but not knife crime. Almost as if culturally one was simply easier to deal with.
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Really?

Like the vast majority of UK citizens I have zero use for a gun. I have lots of legitimate uses for knives.

A knife is one of the simplest tools available and blades have been around for half a million years. Face it, chimpanzees use sticks as spears.

One can legislate against certain types of knife, and one can make it an offence to sell a knife to someone under the age of 18, but it is utterly impractical to ban the sale of, say kitchen knives, chisels and screwdrivers, for example.
 
sadhatter said:
Remember when uzis were the scary weapon, we then put a lot of effort into eliminating them and it magically solved the issue?
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Gotta link? I sam 47 years old and I don't actually remember that.

I remember Uzis being popular in movies and such, but, being full auto, they were never much popular here due to restrictions on full auto.
 
Lurch said:
America must recognize the state of an evolving society.

...

Grow up, America.
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We have evolved. This country was once strongly anti-military. A standing army was considered a "threat to peace and prosperity." Our Third Amendment prohibited the government from stationing soldiers in our homes. We were wary of a strong central government, so states were allowed to keep well-regulated militias.

Then we got better, and recognized the greatness of a military (it's among the most trusted institutions in society), and we dare not say anything that could be viewed as critical of the troops. They're the best. Katie Couric "loves" Marines!

The irony is that now when states and local governments want to regulate firearms (e.g., handgun bans in cities), the central government steps in to prohibit the action. We're all federalists now.
 
Nessie said:
Link please. I am getting conflicting information, such as

http://www.nsra.co.uk/index.php/com...ncategorised/106-british-pistol-championships

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_sports/shooting/4724962.stm

https://www.thecgf.com/sports/spotlight/shooting/shooting-events.asp

"There are three main categories of shooting events you’ll see over the five days of shooting competition at Glasgow 2014’s Barry Buddon venue in Angus, on Scotland’s East coast.....
10m Air Rifle
10m Pistol
50m Rifle 3 Positions (shots fired in kneeling, prone (lying flat on front) and standing positions
50m Rifle Prone
25m Pistol
50m Pistol (Men’s event only)
Full Bore Rifle (athlete stands up to 1000 yards from the target)"
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1000 yds standing... I'd have to see it to believe it.
 
sadhatter said:
Does that perfect sense of community not extend to knife crime?

Seems odd you can magically puff away gun crime but not knife crime. Almost as if culturally one was simply easier to deal with.
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Gun crime absolutely should be easier to deal with. The domestic uses for a gun are pretty limited, whereas the domestic uses for a knife are numerous.
 
Lurch said:
America must recognize the state of an evolving society.

Do male Christians assiduously refuse to sit upon the same seat just vacated by a menstruating woman? Or observe any of the legion of similarly outmoded edicts enumerated in the Old testament?

Then why adhere to a parsiminiously worded, open-to-interpretation, 18th century Amendment (and only the second) to the Nation's Constitution? What might have been relevant during the age of the musket, in the formative years of a still-abuilding country, just might be less applicable today. Or at least be recognized as deserving an update to accommodate modernity.

Canada is a younger Nation than is the US, but we have at least made greater strides in recognizing the benefits to the greater good by limiting some "freedoms." Any collection of citizens possessing of halfway good sense realizes that the "right" to bear arms is really more a privilege, to be regulated with due diligence demanded by import upon safety.

Americans as a society have not yet evolved sufficiently to recognize fully that the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one. Indeed, their collective mindset would seem to be that the *wants* of the one outweigh the *needs* of the many. Hence the kneejerk recoiling in horror at the prospect of any measure that smacks of "socialism", however beneficial to the individual it might be.

Grow up, America.
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Nommed
 
sadhatter said:
Does that perfect sense of community not extend to knife crime?

Seems odd you can magically puff away gun crime but not knife crime. Almost as if culturally one was simply easier to deal with.
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Firstly, tell me how many spree killers have gone into a school and snuffed out a dozen or two school children with a knife.

Secondly, knives are first, and foremost, tools which have many, many useful purposes. They were never designed as weapons. This is not true of guns. Guns were invented for the purpose of killing people. For many years, that was their sole purpose

NOW PAY ATTENTION
Nobody is claiming that deranged lunatics will be totally stopped from killing schoolkids if there were tighter gun controls in place. What we are claiming is that the incidence of these killings will be hugely reduced, and the number of people killed in what incidents there are will be hugely reduced. You only have to look at the UK, Australia, New Zealand and your neighbours Canada, to see that tighter gun controls = less gun deaths. This is a fact, and no matter how the pro-gun lobby try to confuse, sidestep, sidetrack, obfuscate and bog this fact down with minutia, untruths and weasel words, it will remain a fact.
 
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Cl1mh4224rd said:
Gun crime absolutely should be easier to deal with. The domestic uses for a gun are pretty limited, whereas the domestic uses for a knife are numerous.
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I think that both you and I missed out the "Captain Obvious" tagline at the end.

Because that is so obvious it should not need mentioning.
Cl1mh4224rd said:
Are Uzis commonly used in crimes these days?
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My understanding is that the Uzi is a submachine gun. I can't think of a reasonable use other than killing lots of people or animals quickly, so I can't see the problem with banning it. UK society doesn't seem the poorer for the lack of Uzis in public life.
 
Ranb said:
Yes I really said it as it is a simple fact. I don't think shooting up a school is normal and I resent that you are saying I do feel that way.
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I am beginning to resent the sneering attitude a great many people here have toware the USA in general.
One of the things I HATE about Trump is that he has empowered those who hate the United States anyway.
 
Florida man gives AR-15 to police

"This rifle is not a 'tool' I have use for. A tool, by definition makes a job/work easier. Any 'job' I can think of legally needing doing can be done better by a different firearm."

He continued, "I could have easily sold this rifle, but no person needs this."

His post, which garnered hundreds of thousands of likes within one day and over 100,000 shares, was a follow-up to a promise he made on Thursday, when he wrote on Facebook, "I can now say I know people who have been directly affected by three of the most horrific gun violence events in our history (NIU, Las Vegas, Stoneman-Douglas), and a couple more single events. This makes me sick. This makes me mad. I’m tired. I’m tired of hearing about thoughts and prayers."
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dudalb said:
I am beginning to resent the sneering attitude a great many people here have toware the USA in general.
One of the things I HATE about Trump is that he has empowered those who hate the United States anyway.
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I don't really think most people hate the US, as such, or Americans (hell, my son's girlfriend is American and she's a lovely person.)

However a lot of American attitudes are quite foreign to us foreigners.

We really don't understand a need or desire to carry guns around.

Nor for that matter, the extreme partisanship in US politics.

I have friends ranging from very liberal (like me) to extreme conservative (in the UK context - not quite nazi). Things rarely get heated, conversations are conversed, and we agree to move on. We seem able to discuss points of view, instead of just applying libtard/evilcon labels.

And we really don't get the whole flag/national anthem thing for every minor event. Including the start of school days I believe? For major national events maybe, but school sports events and suchlike. Weird.

But you probably find us weird for kicking footballs with our feet.
 
MikeG said:
Ranb said:
I disagree. While murder rates are going down. https://mises.org/blog/fbi-us-homicide-rate-51-year-low

School shootings and mass killings are going up. Coverage (sensational and otherwise) is rising also. What really counts is if you're assaulted, threatened or killed.
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Did you really say that? Really? I mean, given the chance to take this back, would you?

Because it reads like you're complaining that a massacre of kids in a school shouldn't be treated as such a big deal by the press. You'd like it normalised, maybe like a road traffic accident or something, would you?
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Ranb said:
Yes I really said it as it is a simple fact. I don't think shooting up a school is normal and I resent that you are saying I do feel that way.
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MikeG said:
I didn't say anything about how you were feeling. I asked questions because of the way you framed your post. Appearing to whinge about the press coverage given to a massacre is likely to mislead people, if that isn't what you actually intended to say. Which is why I asked.
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dudalb said:
I am beginning to resent the sneering attitude a great many people here have toware the USA in general.
One of the things I HATE about Trump is that he has empowered those who hate the United States anyway.
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I'm seeing a different conversation to you.

The highlighted part to me does indeed look like a complaint that the coverage of mass shootings is sensationalised.

Mass shootings at schools are an almost totally-avoidable tragedy, so sensational media coverage seems reasonable.
 
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...amily-helped-nikolas-cruz-20180217-story.html

No wonder people outside the US think Americans are out of their minds. A "decorated army veteran and a military intelligence analyst who served stints in the Middle East between 1988 and 1996" let a mentally disabled, depressed 19 year old keep an arsenal of weapons because he assumed he had the only key to the locked gun case.

This shooting was so preventable it makes me sick.
 
sadhatter said:
Does that perfect sense of community not extend to knife crime?

Seems odd you can magically puff away gun crime but not knife crime. Almost as if culturally one was simply easier to deal with.
Click to expand...

That every house has many knives (most knife crime in Scotland is with kitchen type knives or Stanley knives) and the rate of death from knife attacks is lower, means the sense of horror and urgency is not as great as it was when a primary school was shot up.

Where Scotland did come together to tackle knife crime was in the tolerance of a massive amount of stop searches. The police were able to operate a stop and search policy that was random and not legal.

http://www.sipr.ac.uk/downloads/Landscape_review_stop_search_270116.pdf

"Police practice in Strathclyde appeared to be broadly tolerated by the public,
insofar as there was no visible sign of public disquiet or damage to public confidence."
 
I don't think gun ban will really prevent acts like this. It would help with general crime, and US indeed should start to do something. IMHO it should start with registration and full responsibility of the holder.
But someone who has mind set on killing will find another way. Truck killing was popularized lately, and it can be just as lethal as guns.
Also there were serious problem with this kid's upbringing. Isn't there something like social help ? Didn't he face any psychological evaluation ? Expelling from school might not be the best, though school has limited options. Something should have followed though. And it didn't.
 
DragonLady said:
What are the police going to do with it? :confused:

Sell it at one of those auctions? :boggled:
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Maybe he thinks they could use it? He says "No one without a law enforcement badge needs this rifle" so he's apparently okay with cops having AR-15s.
 
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