School shooting Florida

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NBC reporting that the NRA has filed federal lawsuit over Florida legislation that raises the age to buy guns to 21; comes hours after governor signed new law.
 
alfaniner said:
The actual quote is "We has the wisdom." :boggled:
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I actually thought you were joking at first. Normally, I'm inclined to give politicians a pass on a verbal glitch like that. Make a few light jokes then let it go. But the second she adopted that smug, superior tone she messed that up. I hope this follows her for the rest of her political career. Like Dan Quayle's spelling thing.
 
Border Reiver said:
In addition to being told - "We make the rules, not you." by lawmakers.

We've been told we need to listen to the children and do what the children ask. Are there any children on this floor? Are there any children making laws? Do we allow the children to tell us that we should pass a law that says, 'No homework'? Or 'You finish high school at the age of 12' just because they want it so? No. The adults make the laws because we have the age. We have the wisdom. And we have the experience.
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What a supercilious demeaning bitch.

Lady, your "wisdom" and "experience" have allowed the situation to prevail where children (you know, the ones you don't want to listen to ) have been murdered. You can hang your hat on that bit of "wisdom" and "experience" you stupid cow!
 
sadhatter said:
What topics other than this should we take advice from 12 year olds on.

Actually better question, can youname me an important subject you take advice from 12 year olds on?
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"Stop letting people shoot at me." seems like a perfectly reasonable one.

I don't understand why Porter is so threatened by that that she feels the need to insult them.
 
Border Reiver said:
In addition to being told - "We make the rules, not you." by lawmakers.

We've been told we need to listen to the children and do what the children ask. Are there any children on this floor? Are there any children making laws? Do we allow the children to tell us that we should pass a law that says, 'No homework'? Or 'You finish high school at the age of 12' just because they want it so? No. The adults make the laws because we have the age. We have the wisdom. And we have the experience.
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Politicians are a bit flummoxed with this one. They are used to knowing that the people who want gun control will make some noise, but don't actually represent a group of people they have to worry about at the polls. Suddenly, these kids showed up on TV, and people are listening to them, and that has some politicians worried.

And we aren't listening to them because they are kids, we are listening to them because the issue really is so simple that even a child can figure it out.

Once again, I find myself reminded of "The Emperor's New Clothes". We have grown so accustomed to "seeing both sides of the issue" or "not wanting to politicize things", or whatever other excuse we made to not come out and say the simple, obvious, truth. It took some kids to stand up and say, "Enough is enough".

In the fairy tale version, when the child spoke up and said the emperor was naked, the crowd admitted their error. In the real world version, some people are saying, "Are you going to listen to a child?" Yes, Ms. Porter, we are.
 
sadhatter said:
What topics other than this should we take advice from 12 year olds on.

Actually better question, can youname me an important subject you take advice from 12 year olds on?
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Yeah, I'll listen to them about anything they seem to have a good grasp on and where the idea seems decent. I'll then assess things myself, just like I do with, oh, I don't know, people.

I certainly would try to avoid the gross logical fallacy of dismissing the idea due to the source rather than the actual idea itself.
 
sadhatter said:
What topics other than this should we take advice from 12 year olds on.

Actually better question, can youname me an important subject you take advice from 12 year olds on?
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malala_Yousafzai had some quite important points to make whilst a child

I also notice that you chose 12 as the age, not up to 17 or 18, which is also high-school age.
 
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jimbob said:
<snip>

I also notice that you chose 12 as the age, not up to 17 or 18, which is also high-school age.
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When someone wants to demean or denigrate someone else's ideas based on the group they are a member of rather than the merit of the idea itself they tend to try and confine the limits of that group as much as possible to those which they believe other people will also be willing to dismiss or demean.
 
Well, the trick is old as argument itself. Still I wonder how people still do it, it's kinda easy to spot. But then politicians don't actually solve your problems, they solve their problems.
 
Are the students really telling the politicians what to do? Or is it more "we're scared and need you to do SOMETHING!"

Yes, the grownups are the ones that need to come up with a solution. But the students are the ones telling them that there is a problem that needs to be solved.

When my kids come out at night and complain they can't sleep for whatever reason, the GROWNUP thing to do is to help them solve the issue. I don't say, "what do you know? Just go to sleep and leave alone."
 
pgwenthold said:
Are the students really telling the politicians what to do? Or is it more "we're scared and need you to do SOMETHING!"

Yes, the grownups are the ones that need to come up with a solution. But the students are the ones telling them that there is a problem that needs to be solved.

<snip>
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Yeah, but ... "Homework".

We can't have them dictating laws about that!!!

Think of the children!!!
 
pgwenthold said:
Are the students really telling the politicians what to do? Or is it more "we're scared and need you to do SOMETHING!"

Yes, the grownups are the ones that need to come up with a solution. But the students are the ones telling them that there is a problem that needs to be solved.

When my kids come out at night and complain they can't sleep for whatever reason, the GROWNUP thing to do is to help them solve the issue. I don't say, "what do you know? Just go to sleep and leave alone."
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IMHO it's more like

"We've got to do something, the house is on fire!"
"What do you know? You don't have the vote yet."
 
White House vows to help arm teachers and backs off raising age for buying guns

The White House on Sunday vowed to help provide “rigorous firearms training” to some schoolteachers and formally endorsed a bill to tighten the federal background checks system, but backed off President Trump’s earlier call to raise the minimum age to purchase some guns to 21 years old from 18 years old.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...a0c8e-253a-11e8-bc72-077aa4dab9ef_story.html?

What a surprise.
 
Captain_Swoop said:
White House vows to help arm teachers and backs off raising age for buying guns

The White House on Sunday vowed to help provide “rigorous firearms training” to some schoolteachers and formally endorsed a bill to tighten the federal background checks system, but backed off President Trump’s earlier call to raise the minimum age to purchase some guns to 21 years old from 18 years old.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...a0c8e-253a-11e8-bc72-077aa4dab9ef_story.html?

What a surprise.
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Given that actual "rigorous firearms training" costs beaucoup de cash (as carried out by police departments, and the military), and given the way the US governments seem to feel the need to cut all the unnecessary costs from government (using education as an example that would include - books, pens, paper, facilities upkeep, teacher's salaries, etc.) I'm sure this will turn out to be what ever teachers bring their own pistols to the range can share a single box of 50 rounds between them.

They'd better hurry, budget cuts are coming up.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
Unless it's changed or this site is wrong, in FL: You can pre-register to vote at 16 years old, but you'll need to wait until you're 18 years old to vote.
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I was wrong. It is voter registration drives that were restricted in Florida for the purpose of lowering the number of voters, particularly among minorities. I thought they made it illegal to do voter registration drives at High Schools as well, but maybe I'm wrong about that.

https://www.npr.org/2012/05/14/152517589/in-florida-registering-voters-a-whole-new-game
 
3point14 said:
Yeah, I'll listen to them about anything they seem to have a good grasp on and where the idea seems decent. I'll then assess things myself, just like I do with, oh, I don't know, people.

I certainly would try to avoid the gross logical fallacy of dismissing the idea due to the source rather than the actual idea itself.
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There's the problem with so many of the anti-gun people--kids and adults alike--seem to have. They don't have a good grasp on the issue. If somebody says 'bullett' when they mean 'cartridge,' I'm not going to condemn them. But somebody who wants to ban "assault rifles" or doesn't know the difference between 'automatic' and 'semi-automatic' doesn't get to have an opinion on gun control.
 
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