School shooting Florida

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William Parcher said:
I was hoping that this thread could be about the Florida school shooting incident.
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Which is roughly the equivalent of "it's too early to talk about guns" which happens after every shooting. If Parkland was a terrible one off, something that rarely happened, you might have a pont. But when it is part of a pattern in your country you can't treat it as only being itself and not part of that pattern. The survivors certainly seem to recognise this. They aren't calling for a solution for their own school only, they want people to find some answers for the prevalence of gun violence in the USA which Parkland is a terrible example of.
 
Parsman said:
Which is roughly the equivalent of "it's too early to talk about guns" which happens after every shooting. If Parkland was a terrible one off, something that rarely happened, you might have a pont. But when it is part of a pattern in your country you can't treat it as only being itself and not part of that pattern. The survivors certainly seem to recognise this.
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But we have threads about "let's talk about the American gun problems" in this subforum and I even bumped one up a few days ago. They are not consistently used for some reason.

I feel sorry for visitors to ISF who are interested in what skeptics have to say about this incident and click on the thread. They find out that we aren't talking about the incident. Not talking about it for pages and pages and pages.
 
ponderingturtle said:
No owning a gun is illegal for a felon. Not just purchasing. Having guns while drunk would be a state offence and might be a felony or not, thus causing you to lose your guns. For example typically it is illegal to carry in a bar even if you are not drinking.
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Err... Felons can own guns legally in at least some states. I seem to be having difficulty finding a list more recent than 2002, though, on a quick search.

As a slight reminder of history, the NRA fought hard to directly put guns into the hands of felons, too, for that matter.
 
William Parcher said:
But we have threads about "let's talk about the American gun problems" in this subforum and I even bumped one up a few days ago. They are not consistently used for some reason.

I feel sorry for visitors to ISF who are interested in what skeptics have to say about this incident and click on the thread. They find out that we aren't talking about the incident. Not talking about it for pages and pages and pages.
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There is really not a lot in the incident itself to be skeptical about. A loony killed a lot of high school kids with a gun that was made specifically to kill a lot of people rather quickly. He has admitted that he did it. Not much room for skepticism there.
 
Steve said:
There is really not a lot in the incident itself to be skeptical about. A loony killed a lot of high school kids with a gun that was made specifically to kill a lot of people rather quickly. He has admitted that he did it. Not much room for skepticism there.
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There can be places for skepticism in a current event such as this. A variety of claims are made in the press and television. We already did have skeptical discussion of the Sheriff and the Deputy and what may or may not have happened there. I offered skepticism that bullets passed through walls in spite of a girl saying that it happened.

Anyway, a visitor might come to see what skeptics have to say even if they don't have skepticism on display - but then they see ongoing off-topic and derail.
 
Could you please walk the discussion back to the school shooting in Florida. If you want to have a general gun legislation discussion by all means open a thread for that purpose. Thank you.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Agatha
 
Cruz withdraws not guilty plea, 'stands mute' on school shooting charges

Sun Sentinel said:
Parkland school shooter Nikolas Cruz is withdrawing his not guilty plea and is instead “standing mute” in the face of 17 counts of murder and 17 counts of attempted murder, his lawyers said in court papers filed Thursday morning.

The legal strategy of standing mute is rarely employed and has the same immediate effect as a not guilty plea — the judge on the case will most likely enter a not guilty plea on the defendant’s behalf when he is formally arraigned, a hearing that has not yet been scheduled.

But by withdrawing the not guilty plea, the Broward Public Defender’s Office sends a signal consistent with what they’ve said since the early days of the case.

Two days after Cruz, 19, was accused of shooting dozens at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, Public Defender Howard Finkelstein said in interviews that guilt is not an issue in the case. Cruz would plead guilty in exchange for a sentence of life in prison, Finkelstein said.

While Finkelstein’s office had no comment on Thursday’s development, the decision to stand mute allows the defense to proceed without claiming to the public, the victims or the court that Cruz did not commit the crime...
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http://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/b...ol-shooting-standing-mute-20180308-story.html
 
FBI staffers knew warnings about Nikolas Cruz were related but closed the case, lawmakers learn

Fox News said:
The FBI this week detailed to Congress a series of mistakes and missed opportunities to intervene before a gunman killed 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida -- including a revelation that staffers knew two warnings about suspect Nikolas Cruz were related, but still closed the case.

FBI Deputy Director David Bowdich made the comments in a closed briefing Tuesday with members of the House Judiciary and Oversight Committees.

In a summary released Wednesday to Fox News, Bowdich cited two tips that the FBI received about Cruz in September 2017 and January 2018 that were mishandled.

The 2017 tip alerted the FBI to a threatening YouTube comment, made by user Nikolas Cruz, which stated: “I’m going to be a professional school shooter.”

According to the summary, a FBI call taker “did not ask any standard investigative probing questions” about the 2018 tip.

The 2018 call taker was able to connect Cruz to the earlier call about the YouTube comment, but after discussing it with a supervisor, they decided not to pursue the matter and the case was closed...
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http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/0...-related-but-closed-case-lawmakers-learn.html
 
Parkland shooter’s text moments before rampage: ‘No big deal. Nothing bad’

Palm Beach Post said:
The lawyer for a northern Broward County family that took in Parkland mass shooter Nikolas Cruz provided The Palm Beach Post on Wednesday with chilling details about texts between Cruz and the family’s teenage son in the minutes before Cruz opened fire...

Cruz was living with the Snead family on Loxahatchee Road in Parkland when he killed the 14 students and three adults at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School on Feb. 14.

Snead family attorney Jim Lewis told The Palm Beach Post on Wednesday:

Cruz texted the Sneads' teenage son, who was in class at Douglas, around 2 p.m., about 20 minutes before Cruz started shooting. Cruz asked what class the son was in and who the teacher was. The son said the teacher was one of the coaches. Cruz texted the son to ask the coach if he remembered Cruz. The coach was not one of the people Cruz shot.

Minutes later, Cruz texted to say he was going to a movie. Lewis said he then "made some kind of comment that, 'I've got something big to tell you.'" When the son pressed him, Cruz texted, "no big deal. Nothing bad."

Lewis said the texting stopped at 2:18 p.m. The last text was a single word: "Yo." The Snead teen texted back several times without a response. Then, the shooting started...
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http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/l...teen-parkland-massacre/uLBExpMrPmNSPtT32hNhSO
 
Disgraced Parkland deputy heard shots inside school building, told cops to stay away

Miami Herald said:
Roundly vilified for not entering a Parkland high school during a mass shooting, Broward Deputy Scot Peterson insisted publicly that he believed that gunfire was happening outside on campus — not from inside the building.

But internal radio dispatches released by the sheriff's office Thursday show Peterson immediately fixated on Building 12 and even radioed that gunfire was happening “inside.”

And, just as school shooter Nikolas Cruz was fleeing the building after killing 17 people, Peterson warned his fellow officers to stay away — even as wounded students and staff lay inside.

BSO policy calls for deputies to engage an active shooter and eliminate the threat.

Do not approach the 12 or 1300 building, stay at least 500 feet away,” Peterson said over the radio, according to the records released Thursday...
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Article includes a detailed timeline of events.

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/broward/article204226584.html
 
911 calls and other things released today...

Miami Herald said:
...dozens made on the day that a former student went on a rampage inside the Parkland high school, was released Thursday by the Broward Sheriff’s Office along with a sampling of the 81 calls that came into their dispatch center on the afternoon of Feb 14. The police agency, whose response to the incident has become the source of national scrutiny, also released additional police reports and notes from calls to addresses associated with shooter Nikolas Cruz.

The release, made in response to a slew of media requests for information under Florida’s public records laws, included just 10 of the calls received by the sheriff’s Regional Communications 911 operators. The calls are all rolled into a 50-minute audio file and can be heard here...
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http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article204162569.html
 
 
Border Reiver said:
In addition to being told - "We make the rules, not you." by lawmakers.

We've been told we need to listen to the children and do what the children ask. Are there any children on this floor? Are there any children making laws? Do we allow the children to tell us that we should pass a law that says, 'No homework'? Or 'You finish high school at the age of 12' just because they want it so? No. The adults make the laws because we have the age. We have the wisdom. And we have the experience.
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Yeah what do kids know eh? Thinking they should be able to go to school without the fear of being shot dead - silly-billies! When they grow up they'll understand that the deaths of their mates was necessary and a price well worth paying to ensure campaign funds keep flowing from the NRA and firearm manufacturers.
 
Border Reiver said:
In addition to being told - "We make the rules, not you." by lawmakers.

We've been told we need to listen to the children and do what the children ask. Are there any children on this floor? Are there any children making laws? Do we allow the children to tell us that we should pass a law that says, 'No homework'? Or 'You finish high school at the age of 12' just because they want it so? No. The adults make the laws because we have the age. We have the wisdom. And we have the experience.
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That's the kind of attitude that the current generation of high schoolers are likely to remember with burning resentment when they get the vote.

Say, is there any precedent for someone telling Americans he doesn't have to listen to them because he has all the power and they get no choice in representation? It rings a distant bell.:)
 
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