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School shooting Florida

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William Parcher said:
The whole world is now being told he is a white supremacist. But the pictures of his victims show something else - he didn't target non-whites at all. .
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Yeah, he just randomly showed up at a White Supremacist training camp. I mean, who hasn't had that happen?
 
crescent said:
A number of those were planned attacks by organized terrorist groups, which is a bit different than what the U.S. has been experiencing. Cull out the terror groups, and the U.S. stands out even more.
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Call school shootings "terrorist", and there would be action immediately. School shootings are a way bigger problem than terrorism in the States. There's billions thrown at terrorism, and a few platitudes thrown at the school victim's families. It's very hard to reconcile the enormous reaction to perceived threats from abroad, and the utter indifference to far worse threats from within.
 
pgwenthold said:
Yeah, he just randomly showed up at a White Supremacist training camp. I mean, who hasn't had that happen?
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You need to read more carefully. No one is denying he was a white supremists,but we don't know yet if that was a major motivation. Seems to me if it was he would have singled out minorities ,which apparently he did not do.
 
MikeG said:
Call school shootings "terrorist", and there would be action immediately.
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Not really. Many different groups call many different things terrorism and those things remain unresolved.
 
dudalb said:
You need to read more carefully. No one is denying he was a white supremists,but we don't know yet if that was a major motivation. Seems to me if it was he would have singled out minorities ,which apparently he did not do.
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William Parcher is absolutely denying he was a white supremacist

The whole world is now being told he is a white supremacist. But the pictures of his victims show something else
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Now the next question is - is anyone claiming he did it because he is a white supremacist and was targeting minority victims? I haven't heard that from anyone except from the leader of the White Supremacist camp who suggested it was either feminists or (of course) the Jews.
 
More about the white supremacy angle:

While no motive has been described by police, Jereb speculated that Cruz may have allegedly committed the massacre out of hatred for Jews or women.

“There’s a very real sense of feminism being a cancer. That could’ve played into what he did, but we have female members of RoF,” Jereb said, adding that “we’re not a big fan of Jews. I think there were a lot of Jews at the school that might have been messing with him.”

Jereb said Cruz belonged to a RoF “cell” from Clearwater and drove up with members to Tallahassee to do paramilitary training. RoF was recently operating in Tallahassee and attempting to court new members, according to a local news report from last year. The group posts videos of training montages on the internet with members in fatigues brandishing weapons.

“I’m not trying to glorify it, but he was pretty efficient in what he did,” Jereb said. “He probably used that training to do what he did yesterday. Nobody I know told him to do that, he just freaked out.”

“I think somebody bought him a Mosin–Nagant, but that’s bolt action. He had a semi-automatic in the school,” Jereb said.

...

Two classmates said they saw Cruz wore a “Make America Great Again” hat.

“I saw him wear a Trump hat,” said Sebastian Gonzalez, a 19-year-old who graduated in 2017.

Ocean Parodie, a 17-year-old junior, said Cruz was politically extreme.

“For example, he would degrade Islamic people as terrorists and bombers. I've seen him wear a Trump hat,” Parodie said.

A Violent Life Online

Cruz wore the Trump hat in a photo on an Instagram account the company said belonged to him. Over his face he wore a red, white, and blue bandana. On that account and another one, Cruz posted photos of guns, knives, anti-Muslim slurs, and a picture of a toad he killed.

On YouTube, a person by the same name spewed hateful commentary about anti-fascists.
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Linky.
 
Tony said:
Not really. Many different groups call many different things terrorism and those things remain unresolved.
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Unresolved isn't the issue. The terrorist issue gets enormous amounts of money, effort, legislation, action, personnel and so on thrown at it, and gets people from all across the political spectrum calling for action, supporting the curtailment of previously held freedoms, and so on......not to speak of the political imperative and acres of press coverage. School shootings? As the people are wont to say: not so much.
 
pgwenthold said:
William Parcher is absolutely denying he was a white supremacist........
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WP can speak for himself, but that's not how I read his post/s. I understood him to be questioning whether a white supremacist was acting as a result of his racial issues, or whether the motivation for this crime was something else. A white supremacist suspended from a school may have been angry with everyone in the school. Never mind whether they were white or black, they were all his enemy.
 
MikeG said:
Unresolved isn't the issue. The terrorist issue gets enormous amounts of money, effort, legislation, action, personnel and so on thrown at it, and gets people from all across the political spectrum calling for action, supporting the curtailment of previously held freedoms, and so on.....
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No, it doesn't. Calling something terrorism does nothing to move opinion or get more funding on an issue. I've personally seen the following referred to as terrorism:

Global warming
Gay marriage
Secular government
Gun control
School shootings
Dangerous driving
Police brutality
Racism
Israeli settlements
Twitter trolls
Feminism/Mens rights

"Terrorism" is mostly a scare word people use to attempt to give their pet issue more legitimacy.
 
crescent said:
A number of those were planned attacks by organized terrorist groups, which is a bit different than what the U.S. has been experiencing. Cull out the terror groups, and the U.S. stands out even more.

ETA: For whatever it is worth, you have also mis-identified it as "School shootings". Not all were shootings. The Cologne school massacre was done with a homemade lance, a homemade mace, and a homemade flamethrower. The Anne Anne Kindergarten was a stabbing.
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The US stands out, but are you claiming the Canadian school shootings were terrorist attacks?

What about in China?
 
crescent said:
A number of those were planned attacks by organized terrorist groups, which is a bit different than what the U.S. has been experiencing. Cull out the terror groups, and the U.S. stands out even more.

ETA: For whatever it is worth, you have also mis-identified it as "School shootings". Not all were shootings. The Cologne school massacre was done with a homemade lance, a homemade mace, and a homemade flamethrower. The Anne Anne Kindergarten was a stabbing.
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Fine, my bad. :rolleyes:

Honestly it was just some background info for the thread, I wasn't trying to make a statement. The question was asked, what will happen now and the list noted outcomes of the perps.
 
Tony said:
No, it doesn't. Calling something terrorism does nothing to move opinion or get more funding on an issue. I've personally seen the following referred to as terrorism:

Global warming
Gay marriage
Secular government
Gun control
School shootings
Dangerous driving
Police brutality
Racism
Israeli settlements
Twitter trolls
Feminism/Mens rights

"Terrorism" is mostly a scare word people use to attempt to give their pet issue more legitimacy.
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Well words have meanings. If you subvert those meanings, then communication is problematic. Terrorism isn't a scare-word falsely used......it's a real thing, involving people with weapons.
 
Tony said:
The problem that rarely gets mentioned in these conversations is that the US is an outlier in another area, i.e. Police shootings and police brutality. As a group, the police, with their legal near immunity and lack of accountability, have shown themselves more irresponsibility and dangerous than individuals. Limiting access to guns would only serve to give the police more power to abuse and make them more dangerous.
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No, American police are much more dangerous than police in civilized countries but are much less dangerous than armed Americans in general.
 
Tsukasa Buddha said:
More about the white supremacy angle:



Linky.
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I find that suspiciously like a white supremacist trying to milk some publicity for his group out of the shooting. Maybe the kid went to a couple 'training' events. Until the police tell us they found all sorts of literature from the group or for the cause, this aspect stands as coincidental at the moment.

Though this kind of thing doesn't surprise me:
Cruz always had his hair short and had a penchant for wearing patriotic shirts that “seemed really extreme, like hating on” Islam, Parodie said. The suspected gunman would also deride Muslims as “terrorists and bombers.”

“I’ve seen him wear a Trump hat,” the student said.
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It's the idea Cruz was an active member of a supremacist group that I would like to see more evidence of.
 
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Skeptic Ginger said:
I find that suspiciously like a white supremacist trying to milk some publicity for his group out of the shooting. Maybe the kid went to a couple 'training' events. Until the police tell us they found all sorts of literature from the group or for the cause, this aspect stands as coincidental at the moment.

Though this kind of thing doesn't surprise me:It's the idea Cruz was an active member of a supremacist group that I would like to see more evidence of.
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Maybe I'm the bigot, but I'm fine calling the person a white supremacist who only casually attended the white supremacists meetings.
 
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