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RUST murder By accident? / Did NRA training Cause the Rust Accident?

Someone would still find a way too screw up, the old saying is you can't Idiot Proof and Idiot.
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I hear that.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 185 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
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Crazy Chainsaw said:
Someone would still find a way too screw up, the old saying is you can't Idiot Proof and Idiot.
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My point exactly and I don't understand why you won't address it. All kinds of things can go wrong with firearms and ammunition. That's why we have processes and procedures to ensure safe handling. All of the issues you've raised could have been addressed by being brilliant on the basics of firearms safety.We need not concern ourselves with the minutia when the first rule had been violated. The person presenting the weapon and the person getting the weapon did not check and agree on the status of the weapon.

We need not concern ourselves with old cowboy tricks or phantom notches once we've established this first rule was violated. Everything else would have been fixed had the person issuing the weapon and the person receiving the weapon checked and agreed on the status of the firearm.
 
Craig4 said:
My point exactly and I don't understand why you won't address it. All kinds of things can go wrong with firearms and ammunition. That's why we have processes and procedures to ensure safe handling. All of the issues you've raised could have been addressed by being brilliant on the basics of firearms safety.We need not concern ourselves with the minutia when the first rule had been violated. The person presenting the weapon and the person getting the weapon did not check and agree on the status of the weapon.

We need not concern ourselves with old cowboy tricks or phantom notches once we've established this first rule was violated. Everything else would have been fixed had the person issuing the weapon and the person receiving the weapon checked and agreed on the status of the firearm.
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That is appropriate on a gun Range, but there are other reasons that Hollywood does things the way they do them.
 
Crazy Chainsaw said:
That is appropriate on a gun Range, but there are other reasons that Hollywood does things the way they do them.
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No. We've all seen numerous armorers in the entertainment industry explain that they don't do things differently. The industry standard is that the person getting the weapon and the person presenting the weapon confirm the status of said weapon.
 
Craig4 said:
No. We've all seen numerous armorers in the entertainment industry explain that they don't do things differently. The industry standard is that the person getting the weapon and the person presenting the weapon confirm the status of said weapon.
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And you honestly believe Baldwin didn't check the weapon and miss the live Round, he could have spun the Cylinder, and looked and seen all the primers punched and thought he was holding a gun with all Dummies.
He might be lying about not checking it for plausible Deniabillity trying to place all blame on the Armourer.
If I were his lawyer that's what I would advise him to do.
 
In Baldwin's interview he said he didn't check the weapon. He said he believed he was handed a cold gun. He even said it wasn't his job to check it.
 
Craig4 said:
In Baldwin's interview he said he didn't check the weapon. He said he believed he was handed a cold gun. He even said it wasn't his job to check it.
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Theres no way he is going to say, "I should have checked the weapon. I am partly to blame."

I'd say he's still on the hook to some degree, especially civilly, because he is a co-producer of the film.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 186 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
theprestige said:
I'd say he's still on the hook to some degree because he didn't check the weapon.
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What do you mean 'still on the hook' ? He is 100% on the hook. Why wouldn't he be ? In front of the law the fact he's an actor is irrelevant. Sure, the circumstances will make it easier to him to convince the jury it was an accident .. but that doesn't mean he wasn't responsible.
 
Dr.Sid said:
What do you mean 'still on the hook' ? He is 100% on the hook. Why wouldn't he be ? In front of the law the fact he's an actor is irrelevant. Sure, the circumstances will make it easier to him to convince the jury it was an accident .. but that doesn't mean he wasn't responsible.
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I was understating the case in order to re-use arayder's phrasing. I agree with you that Baldwin is indeed 100% on the hook and always has been.
 
arayder said:
Theres no way he is going to say, "I should have checked the weapon. I am partly to blame."

I'd say he's still on the hook to some degree, especially civilly, because he is a co-producer of the film.
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theprestige said:
I'd say he's still on the hook to some degree because he didn't check the weapon.
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The industry standard is not totally clear to me but it seems to be reasonable for the actors to check or have the check done right under their noses.

The reason I equivocate is because there might be a need to do the check for a gun phobic actor or if the weapon being used is one the actor is really can't run.

I know I can be trusted to safely check a Colt clone. A .50 caliper machine gun is another thing. So the last thing a movie would need is having me be the sole, final safety checker on the scene where my WWII G.I. character polishes off a bushel of Nazis with a Ma Douce mounted on the back of a jeep.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 186 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
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arayder said:
The industry standard is not totally clear to me but it seems to be reasonable for the actors to check or have the check done right under their noses.

The reason I equivocate is because there might be a need to do the check for a gun phobic actor or if the weapon being used is one the actor is really can't run.

I know I can be trusted to safely check a Colt clone. A .50 caliper machine gun is another thing. So the last thing a movie would need is having me be the sole, final safety checker on the scene where my WWII G.I. character polishes off a bushel of Nazis with a Ma Douce mounted on the back of a jeep.
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You mean as an actor? Yeah, you shouldn't be the sole safety checker, but you should definitely accept the responsibility of being the final safety checker. Because, finally, the gun ends up in your hand. Your finger ends up on the trigger. The barrel ends up pointing wherever you decide to point it.

It seems to me that you should absolutely insist on getting trained on how to personally check and clear each and every gun you're expected to handle on set. If you're too gun-phobic, or that just seems like too much work to you, then you have been mis-cast. You're ethically wrong for accepting the part.
 
theprestige said:
You mean as an actor? Yeah, you shouldn't be the sole safety checker, but you should definitely accept the responsibility of being the final safety checker. Because, finally, the gun ends up in your hand. Your finger ends up on the trigger. The barrel ends up pointing wherever you decide to point it.

It seems to me that you should absolutely insist on getting trained on how to personally check and clear each and every gun you're expected to handle on set. If you're too gun-phobic, or that just seems like too much work to you, then you have been mis-cast. You're ethically wrong for accepting the part.
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I agree. That's the way I'd do it.

My wife watches a soap opera in which about once or twice a month one of the characters pulls a gun (everyone in the town seems to own a blued PPK) and threatens another character. Often it is painfully clear that the actor doesn't know beans about guns. Sometimes there are two fingers on the trigger, or the gun is held so as to make the safety unreachable. Sometimes the actor has their hand so far down the grip you can tell they have never learned to handle a gun's recoil.

My biggest peeve is that the producers just don't understand what it really means to point a gun at someone, because the character pointing to gun is usually trying to force the other character to do this or that, rather than acting in self defense.

But, my sense is that the filming goes at a super fast pace and the producers just don't have the time to familiarize actors with the weapon. I doubt that the actors so badly mishandling to gun would he able to safety check it.

In this case my hope is that an armorer is there to show (not tell) the actor and everyone around that the gun is safe.

Just noticing.

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Dope Clock II: It's been 186 days since Bobby Menard announced plans to create "Artists Valley". So far all he has done is lie through his teeth.
 
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