RUST murder By accident? / Did NRA training Cause the Rust Accident?

[junkshop]

The Amourer stated she Loaded 5 Dummies before lunch, then a sixth Dummy after Lunch.
Then the gun was left on a prop cart in a gun safe also rented from the same prop company.
What if an expert who worked with guns knew the combination to that gun safe from a previous Movie they worked on?
The Amourers father seem to indicate a bad blood relationship between his daughter and another Armour, who he loaned low pressure rounds too.

Where are you getting the highlighted? If the gun was in a gun safe how could Halls have 'grabbed' it, as described in the AP story:

The gun was one of three that the film’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had set on a cart outside the wooden structure where a scene was being acted, according to the records. Assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Where are you getting the highlighted? If the gun was in a gun safe how could Halls have 'grabbed' it, as described in the AP story:

He knew the combination to the safe as many others might have or it was taken out prior to The rehearsal.

 

[junkshop]

The Amourer stated she Loaded 5 Dummies before lunch, then a sixth Dummy after Lunch.
Then the gun was left on a prop cart in a gun safe also rented from the same prop company.
What if an expert who worked with guns knew the combination to that gun safe from a previous Movie they worked on?
The Amourers father seem to indicate a bad blood relationship between his daughter and another Armour, who he loaned low pressure rounds too.

Where are you getting the highlighted? If the gun was in a gun safe how could Halls have 'grabbed' it, as described in the AP story:

He knew the combination to the safe as many others might have or it was taken out prior to The rehearsal.

To reiterate:

Where are you getting the highlighted?

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

To reiterate:

From Dave Hall.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

To reiterate:

Sorry Hall said the gun was in a gun safe during Lunch.

 

[theprestige]

Sorry Hall said the gun was in a gun safe during Lunch.

I haven't seen any reason to believe anything anyone involved in this production has to say about this gun. It's not clear to me that Hall had any **** ing clue what was really going on with this gun or where it was before it got to him. And I absolutely do not trust uncorroborated statements by anyone involved that happen to shift blame away from them.

So I guess that's my conspiracy theory: Baldwin and Hall are probably telling porkies to make it sound like they did nothing wrong and the fault must lie elsewhere.

I have no idea why you'd want to build a theory based on the naive assumption that they're telling the truth.

 

[junkshop]

Sorry Hall said the gun was in a gun safe during Lunch.

Halls

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

I haven't seen any reason to believe anything anyone involved in this production has to say about this gun. It's not clear to me that Hall had any **** ing clue what was really going on with this gun or where it was before it got to him. And I absolutely do not trust uncorroborated statements by anyone involved that happen to shift blame away from them.

So I guess that's my conspiracy theory: Baldwin and Hall are probably telling porkies to make it sound like they did nothing wrong and the fault must lie elsewhere.

I have no idea why you'd want to build a theory based on the naive assumption that they're telling the truth.

Because that's the American way Innocent until Proven Guilty.

 

[theprestige]

Because that's the American way Innocent until Proven Guilty.

As I said elsewhere:

As I said elsewhere:

This is an important limitation on the state, when it seeks to take away someone's civil liberties by rule of law. We hold the state to a strict legal standard when it attempts this, for obvious reasons.

We extra-legal observers are not bound by this limitation, and are free to reach our own conclusions from the available information.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

As I said elsewhere:

Good thing you will not be on the jury.

 

[theprestige]

Good thing you will not be on the jury.

The jury is also not bound by the principle of "innocent until proven guilty". Jurors are entirely free to make up their minds before the trial, based on any reasoning or not as they see fit. Only the state is bound by this principle. Specifically, the state is bound to not infringe on the accused's civil liberties until the jury renders a verdict. It is the verdict which proves the guilt and and unbinds the state against the accused. How the jury arrives at their verdict is entirely up to the jurors.

And I can certainly consider Baldwin morally and ethically guilty here, even if I am ultimately convinced that his actions were technically within the law and that he's not legally guilty.

Are you seriously claiming that you never consider anyone guilty of wrongdoing, unless they've actually been convicted in a criminal trial? Jerome Corsi - innocent? George Zimmerman - innocent? Dick Cheney - innocent?

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

The jury is also not bound by the principle of "innocent until proven guilty". Jurors are entirely free to make up their minds before the trial, based on any reasoning or not as they see fit. Only the state is bound by this principle. Specifically, the state is bound to not infringe on the accused's civil liberties until the jury renders a verdict. It is the verdict which proves the guilt and and unbinds the state against the accused. How the jury arrives at their verdict is entirely up to the jurors.

And I can certainly consider Baldwin morally and ethically guilty here, even if I am ultimately convinced that his actions were technically within the law and that he's not legally guilty.

Are you seriously claiming that you never consider anyone guilty of wrongdoing, unless they've actually been convicted in a criminal trial? Jerome Corsi - innocent? George Zimmerman - innocent? Dick Cheney - innocent?

If I look at it as a criminal case and not as a witness to the crime, then yes.

 

[theprestige]

If I look at it as a criminal case and not as a witness to the crime, then yes.

Help me understand: You concocted this whole bizarre conspiracy theory because Baldwin said he didn't do it, and so now we have to come up with any excuse we can think of to believe him, until someone proves otherwise?

 

[Axxman300]

Rule One - Never believe anything you read or hear coming out of any Hollywood scandal, unless it is confirmed by at least three independent sources. In the case of a Hollywood scandal were someone has died, three sources might not be enough.

Everything we know about this case has been put out there by interested parties; a film production union, the production team, the armorer, and Mister Baldwin.

How about discussing this statement from Baldwin from his 20/20 interview:

After cocking and releasing the gun's hammer, Baldwin recalled that, "first of all, everyone is horrified, they're shocked, it's loud."

"[Hutchins] goes down. I thought to myself, 'Did she faint?'" he said. "The notion that there was a live round in that gun did not dawn on me till probably 45 minutes to an hour later."

Baldwin said accidental discharges of blanks or dummy rounds on film and television sets are common. In fact, crew members have since said that there had already been at least one accidental discharge on the "Rust" set just days before the fatal incident.

So when Baldwin's gun discharged, he said it wasn't immediately clear to him or anyone else watching the scene that something terrible had happened.

Baldwin said Halls telling him he was handling a "cold gun" added an additional layer of confusion because it meant the gun was supposed to be clear of live rounds.

In the chaos that followed, Baldwin said he wondered whether Hutchins had been hit by an errant projectile from a malfunctioning gun, like "wadding," which packs gunpowder into the barrel, or perhaps even had a heart attack.

"No one could understand," he said.

Hutchins had been shot in the chest with a live bullet. Souza, a longtime friend and collaborator of Baldwin's, had been standing behind Hutchins when the discharge occurred and was hit with the same bullet.

Baldwin said he stood over Hutchins for 60 seconds, "kind of in shock," he said, before being told to leave the area. Baldwin said he and other crew members had their eyes "glued" to the emergency helicopter that arrived some 30 minutes later.

He said he then went to the sheriff's office. There, he said officers showed him a photo of a lead bullet that had been removed from Souza. That's when officers told him Hutchins had died, he said.

"At the very end of my interview with the sheriff's department ... they said to me, 'We regret to tell you that [Hutchins] didn't make it,'" Baldwin said. "They told me right then and there."

I've highlighted the red-flags in bold italic.

The AD hands Baldwin a "cold gun", meaning it is devoid of blanks or dummy rounds. We'll ignore the fact that he doesn't check the gun to confirm the weapon is clear. He points the weapon, pulls the hammer back, and it goes BANG.

I'm not firearms expert, but an unloaded gun shouldn't go BANG.

I'll just assume Baldwin is a complete moron as far as not understanding that someone dropping to the floor, and bleeding all over the place might be a problem.

But here's where Baldwin's attorney should quit right now: There should not have been a bang of any kind. Why would think Hutchins had simply fainted? He said it was loud. Well no duh, but did he mean it was louder than he expected?. The implication, by way of Baldwin being stupid enough to run his mouth, is that he expected the gun to go, BANG. Blanks are not as loud as real bullets.

Accidental discharges are not common on film sets. Baldwin should know this, unless they are common on HIS film sets. On most film sets, when a gun misfires, or shoots when it should not, production is halted, and everyone involved works to track down the problem. Usually someone gets fired.

And for the record, I don't claim to think Baldwin thought there was a blank in the gun in order to play a prank. But the more he talks, the more he buries himself.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

"Hilaria" Baldwin must be awfully relieved to no longer be the most embarrassing half of this famous couple.

Others pointed out that her management agency's online biography said she was born on the Spanish island of Mallorca. She and her husband gave their five children - whom she dubs the "Baldwinitos" - Spanish names.

But some who knew her as Hillary Hayward-Thomas said she didn't use a Spanish accent in high school and was in fact the "archetypal northeastern prep schooler".

She was born in Boston, Massachusetts to real estate lawyer David L Thomas Jr and Dr Kathryn Hayward, who was an assistant professor at Harvard Medical School, the New York Times said.

https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-55497200

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Rule One - Never believe anything you read or hear coming out of any Hollywood scandal, unless it is confirmed by at least three independent sources. In the case of a Hollywood scandal were someone has died, three sources might not be enough.

Everything we know about this case has been put out there by interested parties; a film production union, the production team, the armorer, and Mister Baldwin.

How about discussing this statement from Baldwin from his 20/20 interview:



I've highlighted the red-flags in bold italic.

The AD hands Baldwin a "cold gun", meaning it is devoid of blanks or dummy rounds. We'll ignore the fact that he doesn't check the gun to confirm the weapon is clear. He points the weapon, pulls the hammer back, and it goes BANG.

I'm not firearms expert, but an unloaded gun shouldn't go BANG.

I'll just assume Baldwin is a complete moron as far as not understanding that someone dropping to the floor, and bleeding all over the place might be a problem.

But here's where Baldwin's attorney should quit right now: There should not have been a bang of any kind. Why would think Hutchins had simply fainted? He said it was loud. Well no duh, but did he mean it was louder than he expected?. The implication, by way of Baldwin being stupid enough to run his mouth, is that he expected the gun to go, BANG. Blanks are not as loud as real bullets.

Accidental discharges are not common on film sets. Baldwin should know this, unless they are common on HIS film sets. On most film sets, when a gun misfires, or shoots when it should not, production is halted, and everyone involved works to track down the problem. Usually someone gets fired.

And for the record, I don't claim to think Baldwin thought there was a blank in the gun in order to play a prank. But the more he talks, the more he buries himself.

Dummy rounds can be in a cold gun you got that wrong, the question Is was a dud mistaken for a dummy round by the Manufacturer and got into a box of Dummy rounds by mistake, then the the Amourer failed to find it because of her work load as prop master and Amourer?
Or was the Armour sabotaged?

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

Did NRA training Cause the Rust Accident?

It's a simple Question, I was taught to handle single action firearms and hammer guns differently than other guns, automatics I was taught to feel the sear Notch engaging before releasing the hammer, and to never Crook Cock, or release the hammer until it is at rest in a Notch or in the fired position.
I had two sear failures but no misfires because of that.
Could special expert training have saved the Life of the Cinematographer?
Is NRA sponsored gun training partially at fault for this horrible event?

 

[Craig4]

No. Firearms safety happens when you have multiple procedures in place to ensure a weapon is safe and everyone who handles the weapon assumes all of those procedures have failed. The accident happened because no one cleared the weapon. It has nothing to do with the differences in various types of actions on weapons. The accident occurred because people assumed all their procedures had worked and that's something you should never do with firearms.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Not saying that this isn't a legitimate topic for discussion, but is it in the right sub-forum?

 

[RecoveringYuppy]

Not saying that this isn't a legitimate topic for discussion, but is it in the right sub-forum?

I'd say it's in the correct forum considering the OP has no evidence any of those Hollywood types got anywhere near NRA gun training. So, leave here until that hurdle is cleared.