Merged Roosevelt's Rotten Record:Communism, Treachery, Betrayal

[BravesFan]

The USA would have been forced into Europe once Pearl happened,regardless of Hitler declaring war on us or not, because we needed the help of the allied powers in the Pacific and we weren't gonna get it without reciprocating in Europe.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The USA would have been forced into Europe once Pearl happened,regardless of Hitler declaring war on us or not, because we needed the help of the allied powers in the Pacific and we weren't gonna get it without reciprocating in Europe.

Roosevelt and Churchill had decided in August that the "Germany First" policy would the over-arching strategy. We were de facto at war with Germany in the Atlantic already. And there were calls for a declaration of war against Germany on the floor of Congress the day we voted for war against Japan. It was going to happen, we would have been at war with Germany in weeks if not days. Mr. Gallup had already told us Germany was considered the greater threat by the public. For example:

December 23
THREAT TO AMERICA'S FUTURE
Interviewing Date 12/12-17/41
Survey #244 Question #6
Which country is the greater threat to America's future -- Germany or Japan?

Germany..........64%
Japan...............15
Equal threats....15
No opinion.......6

The Gallup Poll p. 312

 

[Corsair 115]

The USA would have been forced into Europe once Pearl happened,regardless of Hitler declaring war on us or not, because we needed the help of the allied powers in the Pacific...

What help did the U.S. need? The war against Japan was almost entirely an American effort.

 

[BravesFan]

Well the British Pacific fleet provided lots of important flank coverage as well as logistical support. The Aussies provided lots of assistance in both ground and air forces. There were a lot of allies assisting us in the Pacific.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Plus the Japanese didn't just attack the US, there was figthing in a lot more places than the Pacific Islands.

 

[SpitfireIX]

What help did the U.S. need? The war against Japan was almost entirely an American effort.

+1

Further, Japan attacked British possessions in Asia at the same time it attacked the US, a point to which Captain Swoop alluded. So Britain and the Commonwealth were already in the Pacific war; no quid pro quo of a US declaration of war against Germany and Italy was required.

The US would have declared war on Germany and Italy even if Hitler and Mussolini hadn't declared war on the US first. It might have taken a few months, but I suspect the actual time would have been much less, probably just long enough for an extended debate in Congress.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

What help did the U.S. need? The war against Japan was almost entirely an American effort.

And the Pacific got less than half of our effort. One-hand-tied time. The individual Japanese soldier was a fierce warrior, but he was lead by fools.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

The US would have declared war on Germany and Italy even if Hitler and Mussolini hadn't declared war on the US first. It might have taken a few months, but I suspect the actual time would have been much less, probably just long enough for an extended debate in Congress.

Calls for war against "the Axis powers" were made on Dec. 7th, based on the assumption that Japan would not have acted without the consent and encouragement of the Germans.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I think this whole thread points out the problems conspiracy theorists have, they stop when they get enough information to satisfy their beliefs and refuse to consider any additional information for fear that it will upset those beliefs. There are a few Machiavellians among them that do look at "new" information, but only so they can cherry pick. The vast major of these clods just swallow the propaganda they're given.

 

[SpitfireIX]

Calls for war against "the Axis powers" were made on Dec. 7th, based on the assumption that Japan would not have acted without the consent and encouragement of the Germans.

Not to mention the idea that the "inferior" Japanese couldn't have pulled off such a complicated operation without the help of white men.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Not to mention the idea that the "inferior" Japanese couldn't have pulled off such a complicated operation without the help of white men.

Yeah, the ignorant folks did trot that one out. The professional military men, for the most part, didn't share that opinion. Stark knew we were facing long odds in every category of ship in the Pacific, and Marshall and he were begging the Prez to delay open hostilities as long as he could, "ninety days if possible."

 

[BravesFan]

And the Pacific got less than half of our effort. One-hand-tied time. The individual Japanese soldier was a fierce warrior, but he was lead by fools.

Tis true, the USA had superior leadership and seemed to maintain logistical support at a much higher success rate than the Japanese. Who, after Midway, seemed to lose their minds.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Tis true, the USA had superior leadership and seemed to maintain logistical support at a much higher success rate than the Japanese. Who, after Midway, seemed to lose their minds.

They lost their minds in September of 1941, latest. The Japan of the 1930s should stand as a blazing example of why it is bad to let the military dictate foreign policy to the Government. The Army would not allow loss of face that would come with withdrawing from China, so the China Incident turned into a black hole they couldn't escape from. It all revolved around the egos of the military men and every year they'd tell the Emperor they only needed one more year to wrap things up. The fact that Tojo was Prime Minister AND Army Minister while on active duty with the Army on Dec. 7th, 1941, says it all, IMNSHO.

 

[Andy_Ross]

What help did the U.S. need? The war against Japan was almost entirely an American effort.

I think my Uncle who spent over 3 years in Burma would argue against that, so would many thousands of Indian, Australian and New Zealand troops.

There were more than 20 Indian Divisions, more than 10 Australian plus the British Divisions.

About 87,000 Indian soldiers lost their lives. Indian soldiers won 30 Victoria Crosses.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I think my Uncle who spent over 3 years in Burma would argue against that, so would many thousands of Indian, Australian and New Zealand troops.

There were more than 20 Indian Divisions, more than 10 Australian plus the British Divisions.

About 87,000 Indian soldiers lost their lives. Indian soldiers won 30 Victoria Crosses.

We don't get much about the Kokoda Trail over here. Or the CBI. I'm trying to fix that, following Patrick's lead, at Hyperwar.

*cough* Proofreaders needed! *cough*

 

[BravesFan]

They lost their minds in September of 1941, latest. The Japan of the 1930s should stand as a blazing example of why it is bad to let the military dictate foreign policy to the Government. The Army would not allow loss of face that would come with withdrawing from China, so the China Incident turned into a black hole they couldn't escape from. It all revolved around the egos of the military men and every year they'd tell the Emperor they only needed one more year to wrap things up. The fact that Tojo was Prime Minister AND Army Minister while on active duty with the Army on Dec. 7th, 1941, says it all, IMNSHO.

I was referring to their change in tactics and refusal to attempt peace when they were obviously not going to win ... But your point is well taken!

 

[SpitfireIX]

A few years ago, if I remember correctly, there was a book from a good university press that claimed that Nazi Germany did indeed have eventual designs on the US and moving into the western hemisphere. But they were long term plans and involved building aircraft carriers and long range bombers.

 

[Andy_Ross]

We don't get much about the Kokoda Trail over here. Or the CBI. I'm trying to fix that, following Patrick's lead, at Hyperwar.

*cough* Proofreaders needed! *cough*

I might have ti have a look at Hyperwar.

In the meantine Battle of Kohima the 'Stalingrad of the East'

and the simultaneous Battle of Imphal

Turning point of the Burma Campaign, over 21,000 Commonwealth casualties and more than 59,000 Japanese.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

I might have ti have a look at Hyperwar.

In the meantine Battle of Kohima the 'Stalingrad of the East'

and the simultaneous Battle of Imphal

Turning point of the Burma Campaign, over 21,000 Commonwealth casualties and more than 59,000 Japanese.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/CBI/index.html

 

[Garrison]

*cough* Proofreaders needed! *cough*

More chance of finding bigfoot than a decent proofreader....