Ronald Reagan dies

evildave said:


The fact that you lash out, rather than try to clarify whatever your 'point' is supposed to be, is similarly unsurprising.
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Lash out? Where. Oh pleeeeaasseee - not another false assumption based on flawed perception.

So, lets get this straight - you balls up, make any number of false accusations based on flawed supposition therefore the onus is on me to clarify things.

Ah...Ok.

But I thought it was pretty clear

It is not nice to speak ill of the dead "20 minutes" after they pop their clogs. Regardless of who they are and especialy when it is bound to provoke a reaction and also when the familty is grieving.
I know it's going to be all over the papers. I know pundits are going to have a big pop at the guy over the next few days/weeks. Still doesn't make it right.

Guess I'm old school. Respect etc.

Now then, can you clarify why you jumped to so many false conclusions regarding my 'alleged' standpoints regarding Dead American soldiers/the "little guy"/quietening political dissidents (? - bit mental that one)

Thank you very much for your time in this matter.
 
The Central Scrutinizer said:

Yeah, they always spread scandalous rumors that he was a drunk. Then they released the White House tapes, and guess what moron? He was a drunk!
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Was he driving drunk? Did he drown a chick then swim home and pretend like it never happened?

I have more on you, moron, than any bad politician. I'll release it only if God grants you an un-timely death, by some lucky chance that we should be so blessed.
 
charley_bigtime said:
But I thought it was pretty clear

It is not nice to speak ill of the dead "20 minutes" after they pop their clogs.
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And I ask again. What length of time makes it "nice". And does it only apply to people you like?
charley_bigtime said:
Regardless of who they are and especialy when it is bound to provoke a reaction and also when the familty is grieving.
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I strongly suspect that the "regardless of who they are" part is not your real feeling. Would you not also cry out "Ding dong the Witch is dead!" if someone you found particularly loathsome died? How long would you wait.

No, this "wait a respectful length of time" is hypocrisy, pure and simple. As for the grieving family, I strongly suspect that they have become inured to public attacks. Have not people been joking about Reagan's illness for some time? Why now should they pay attention to what is said in an obscure discussion board. They'll have plenty of people to sing Ronnie's praises, loud enough to drown out any of those who say the things they truly remember about him.

charley_bigtime said:
Guess I'm old school. Respect etc.
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Just because I criticise him does not indicate respect. I respect many with whom I disagree, and indeed don't like. Beloved enemy, ya know. He had a knack for making people like him, and for making the ridiculous sound plausible.

I respect him. I just won't lie for him.
 
And I ask again. What length of time makes it "nice".

More than ten minutes Tricky. I would suggest an adequate timespan would be until after a funeral has been held.

And does it only apply to people you like?

No. And I never said I "liked" Reagan either. Flawed assumption yet again. This thread is full of them isn't it?

No, this "wait a respectful length of time" is hypocrisy, pure and simple. As for the grieving family, I strongly suspect that they have become inured to public attacks. Have not people been joking about Reagan's illness for some time? Why now should they pay attention to what is said in an obscure discussion board. They'll have plenty of people to sing Ronnie's praises, loud enough to drown out any of those who say the things they truly remember about him.

I agree with you to a certain extent - it's total hypocrisy right up to the point that it's a member of *your* family that's getting the abuse. Then respect is paramount in *your* mind. As for being inured to public attacks - you know this of course? I re-iterate, they're going to get loads off the media over the next few days and whether this is an obscure discussion board or not - the point remains valid.


I respect him.

I will not praise him in death when I found him so totally despicable in life. He is simply the worst president of the last 50 years.

Sure.
 
Tricky said:

I believe that having the news (not just TV) saturated with maudlin sentiment for such a man is hypocrisy. I would hope that when I die, people do not hide their feelings for me, but say what they felt while I was alive. Your implication that I should go all mealymouthed in this situation indicates to me that you are not above such petty nonsense.


Teddy's a politician too. He has to be politically correct.

Tell me, though, what is the appropriate length of time before one can drop the pretense and say what one feels?
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Not what one feels, but what is the truth. There is much that is beyond dispute, he even admitted that although he never meant to trade arms (to terrorists) for hostages (and give the money to support an illegal war), it happened.

I do believe in an appropriate period of respect and mourning, except for the most despicable, and in that spirit I offer the following: he had a sense of humor.
When he was being denied membership in a country club for being an actor he said, "I'm no actor, and I have 30 films to prove it."
 
I will add that my deferring truthful obsequies is due to being in the middle of reading "The Undertaking: Life Studies from the Dismal Trade" by Thomas Lynch, an amazing poet writer who happens to be a funeral director in a nearby town (Milford, Michigan).
I have a newfound respect for the "living, and the living who have died."

Highly recommend the book.
 
evildave said:


I'm sure that you are... It's just too bad you didn't notice your 'loss' back when Reagan was erased by his Alzheimer's disease. It wasn't so publicised.

I'm ever so saddened to see that you focused right in on the famous people, and don't care a whit about all the thousands of 'little people' who've been dying, and will continue to die because of the present administration. I guess celebrity really is more important to you than family.

I only point this out because anybody's death is a loss to someone. I'm sure you wouldn't shed a tear if I died. After all, like the tens of thousands of other people who die every day, I'm not particularly 'famous'.
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You're kinda slow on the uptake, aren't ya? Famous people and celebs? I said I didn't cry but I did feel a loss and in that same post I included my father. So if I felt loss for both, how is it that you can somehow gather that I only feel loss for famous people? As a former Marine I feel a loss every single time one dies, in war or in peace time accidents.

You were born with a brain, try using it before posting.
 
Troll said:


You're kinda slow on the uptake, aren't ya? Famous people and celebs? I said I didn't cry but I did feel a loss and in that same post I included my father. So if I felt loss for both, how is it that you can somehow gather that I only feel loss for famous people? As a former Marine I feel a loss every single time one dies, in war or in peace time accidents.

You were born with a brain, try using it before posting.
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You feel a loss every time some random joe dies? Over 43,000 died in car wrecks alone in 2001 in the U.S., yet Reagan gets a special place right next to your father. Never even met him, I'd wager.
 
evildave said:


You feel a loss every time some random joe dies? Over 43,000 died in car wrecks alone in 2001 in the U.S., yet Reagan gets a special place right next to your father. Never even met him, I'd wager.
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Well I can't say I feel a loss for everyone. In fact I never did say that. I even said I wouldn't feel a loss for Bin Laden. But yeah I try to avoid news pertaining to kids getting killed and I never read the obits, because the loss of life does bug me, providing the person who died wasn't someone I would consider to be a nasty person that deserved it.

And if you did that reading thing I mentioned earlier, you'd see that I mentioned my father simply because I don't cry over death any more. But I do feel loss when people die, even strangers when I hear about them. As such I don't tend to sit around and think that just now another couple of people have died while I posting this, as that would be too time consuming and make the sense of loss a tad overwhelming. It is a real bitch having empathy for others.

Now are you through with your little attempts at mocking me and my empathy for the loss of a man who died and a man that I actually liked as well, or is the fact that I did like and respect the man such a burden for you to bear that you must continue?
 
charley_bigtime said:


Lash out? Where. Oh pleeeeaasseee - not another false assumption based on flawed perception.

So, lets get this straight - you balls up, make any number of false accusations based on flawed supposition therefore the onus is on me to clarify things.

Ah...Ok.

But I thought it was pretty clear

It is not nice to speak ill of the dead "20 minutes" after they pop their clogs. Regardless of who they are and especialy when it is bound to provoke a reaction and also when the familty is grieving.
I know it's going to be all over the papers. I know pundits are going to have a big pop at the guy over the next few days/weeks. Still doesn't make it right.

Guess I'm old school. Respect etc.

Now then, can you clarify why you jumped to so many false conclusions regarding my 'alleged' standpoints regarding Dead American soldiers/the "little guy"/quietening political dissidents (? - bit mental that one)

Thank you very much for your time in this matter.
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It's my experience that the dead don't mind much, whatever is said of them.

We're right back to people getting upset "for" other people. This is something that I do not respect.

After all, Reagan can't get upset for himself, and probably hasn't been able to interpret things that could have been affronts to him for at least a few years. Reagan quite literally 'died' when his Alzheimer's disease made him a vegetable.

Now you're all upset because I am not showing enough 'respect' for him in your opinion. I'll file that away with other people's 'opinions' of how other people 'should have' reacted to affronts. In this case, it's DEAD people.

Reagan was not 10,000 people's worth of interpretation of affronts to his holiness and sacred memory. He was a man. Nothing I could have ever said when he was at 100% of his faculties would have ever mattered to Ronald Reagan in the slightest bit.

Nothing you say about your sacred image of the Legendary Reagan matters to me now.

Let me repeat: Reagan has been dead for some time. I see no reason to suddenly get upset about it NOW that his delayed composting cycle has begun.
 
evildave said:


It's my experience that the dead don't mind much, whatever is said of them.

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Ah, been hanging out with John Edwards, haven't you? I mean you have this "experience" with dead people and all, so what else could it be? haha
 
Troll said:

...
Now are you through with your little attempts at mocking me and my empathy for the loss of a man who died and a man that I actually liked as well, or is the fact that I did like and respect the man such a burden for you to bear that you must continue?
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No, and no.

Your execssive sensitivity in regards to a celebrity is fascinating, but hardly surprising. Many people identify with celebrities who wouldn't give them the time of day if they were the last two people on Earth. Do you have any idea how many people will CRY when they see the last 'Friends' episode?

Your attachment to a man who (for the last several years, even if he did know you) wouldn't have recognized you from a broom being shaken in front of him is strange. Even before that, you never could have known him in any manner except the publicized 'Reagan'.

Did you really ever know Reagan the man, or do you know and respect the 'Reagan' as portrayed by the media?

I wager the latter.
 
Troll said:


Ah, been hanging out with John Edwards, haven't you? I mean you have this "experience" with dead people and all, so what else could it be? haha
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Well, if you believe in that hokum, so much the worse for you.

I would tend to interpret the fact that they remain utterly inert as their acquiescence. Of course, you can hope Ronald Reagan will 'haunt' me, but in the balance of things, a lot of people should be doing that by now, and I haven't noticed anything the least bit 'spooky' at all. Probably, it's just that I'm awfully low on their priority lists for people deserving their direct haunting attention, is all. Maybe you could call up the undead Republican Defamation League to give me a jingle?
 
No. why? Are you Michael Moore in real life and trying to confuse us with non-facts? Seriously, if all you got is insults for a post, then why bother posting? You got nothing, oughta post as such.
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I said that I did not wish Alzheimers on anyone and that I would have hoped Reagan had lived as long healthy and sharp.
Did I insult Reagan?
Did I insult Skeptic by comparing him to GWBush?
Did I insult Bush by comparing him to Skeptic?
Who the heck did I insult?
Before this, you moron.
 
evildave said:


No, and no.

Your execssive sensitivity in regards to a celebrity is fascinating, but hardly surprising. Many people identify with celebrities who wouldn't give them the time of day if they were the last two people on Earth. Do you have any idea how many people will CRY when they see the last 'Friends' episode?

Your attachment to a man who (for the last several years, even if he did know you) wouldn't have recognized you from a broom being shaken in front of him is strange. Even before that, you never could have known him in any manner except the publicized 'Reagan'.

Did you really ever know Reagan the man, or do you know and respect the 'Reagan' as portrayed by the media?

I wager the latter.
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Now pay attention because i'm going to address both your posts in this one single post. I don't want you to get any more confused than you already appear to be.

I've had to deal with friends and family with Parkinson's, Alzheimer's and Huntington's disease. So I know they don't recognize people. Does it matter if they don't know I have a concern for them or a respect for them? No. I do not need to feel validated by having my thoughts or concerns recognized by the people I have them for.

There is no excessive sensitivity for Reagan, just the normal every day kind of sensitivity for a person. I happened to admire the man and his accomplishments. I know he had some bad points in his life. Most people do, so I won't bother to waste my time pointing out past flaws when in many cases he managed to rise above those flaws. Yes, it is true I never hung out with him and went fishing but then I never said I admired or respected every single aspect of the man either. So we have his public life that I am aware of and that is the life I do respect. The strange thing here is that I'm not idolizing the man nor making claims as to his "greatness" and yet you seem upset that I would respect his public life and his public service. You keep wanting to make wagers. I'll wager you were against the man and his politics and are, for some unkown reason, trying to argue my like for the man simply because of your dislike for him. I hate beets, will you now began long posts about how great they are and how i am a fool for not liking them?

I enjoy how you try to pull things out of my words that aren't there. I believe Edward's to be a fool of great magnitude and a con man, herein ends all connections with me and a "belief" about him. I was merely joshing you about your vast "eperience" with the dead and how they feel as it seems to be something Edward's himself would say.
 
fishbob said:
I said that I did not wish Alzheimers on anyone and that I would have hoped Reagan had lived as long healthy and sharp.
Did I insult Reagan?
Did I insult Skeptic by comparing him to GWBush?
Did I insult Bush by comparing him to Skeptic?
Who the heck did I insult?
Before this, you moron.
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What are your thoughts about GW Bush? I've read some of them. Seems like an insult towards Skeptic was exactly what you were opting for. :p Who is the little moron now?
 
And then you make assumptions about me. I was in the armed forces when Reagan was in office. I was USAF aircrew, going to the Middle East, watching the shooting between Iran & Iraq. Reagan was the Commander In Chief. Whatever he said was golden.

Now I've watched over the last 20 years as the Republican Party has seriously declined. From George H.R. Bush claiming to have taken down 'the wall' all by himself, to his retarded son taking office in the wake of the Clinton scandals, and moving on to demonstrate he's an utterly hopeless retard by launching an unnecessary and thoroughly stupid war whose only purpose (other than petroleum greed) is political payoffs.

Whatever Reagan accomplished, it's dead. We, the United States of America, are the 'Evil Empire' to virtually the entire planet now. Nuclear proliferation isn't a fear. It's a reality. The Republican party is overrun by fundies who want to summon their Jesus for the rapture fairy tales they believe in, even if they destroy the world, and use our government to do it. Whatever bad thing anybody could possibly think of to say about Ronald Reagan's party, the Republican party has done far worse.

James Watt (Secretary of the Interior, Under Reagan): “We don't have to protect the environment, the Second Coming is at hand.”

"For the first time ever, everything is in place for the Battle of Armageddon and the Second Coming of Christ." - Ronald Reagan (Reagan commented to James Mills regarding events in Libya)

Very quotable quotes, all in all. I don't see a reason to give such people a 'second chance' for more power. I don't see a reason to respect such retarded world-views from people who believe they can summon their "Jesus" demon to start everything over again "all better" after they literally do everything they can to destroy the world.

Screw Reagan
 
What are your thoughts about GW Bush? I've read some of them. Seems like an insult towards Skeptic was exactly what you were opting for. Who is the little moron now?
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It was a joke. A moment of levity during an otherwise serious discussion. And not directed at you or at Mr. Reagan. Get down off your self-righteous saddle for a minute or I shall be forced to taunt you again.
 
My philosophy on death

My philosophy on death is that once you die you simply forget your name, forget later life, forget your childhood. In fact you forget that you were ever born in the first place :D

Ronald Reagan had already done all of those things five years ago :D

CDR
 
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