The Central Scrutinizer
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American said:
I didn't think you homosexuals lashed out like this!!! I guess I hit a little to close to home!
Ronald Reagan dies
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I didn't think you homosexuals lashed out like this!!! I guess I hit a little to close to home!
MacGuffin
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I was in 4th grade I believe in some sort of rocket club meeting at lunch when the science teacher turned on the TV for some reason and yelled "My god the presidents been shot!"
I still remember that moment so well because of the reactions of my fellow classmates. The majority of which were cheering and clapping. I remember this one kid Tom who was going on about how great it was all day.
I was no fan of the president, at the time probably only because my parents weren't, but I remember sort of taking it all in that day not knowing how to react.
At dinner I talked about it with my parents and distinctly remembered a conversation about how as much as you hate the guy you should never take glee in somebodys pain that way.
Then after the president recovered the dinner table was full of Reagan-bashing on a nightly basis for the next seven plus years. So while the current eulogys on TV are inevitable I just turn them off. I just accept they won't be objective about the reagan legacy. This will just last for a week or so, then as we move away from his death, the historic record will be more clear. When Nixon died ten years ago there was the same kind of lovefest for a bad president but now those TV eulogies are long forgotten and we are free to constructively talk about his era.
So the problem in this forum is that what passes for political talk on radio and tv these days is usually personal attacks and exagerations and not fact-based discussions. So it then transfers into our culture and places like this site and we end up getting nowhere and making a lot of enemies.
So if you want a reasonable and rational discussion about Reagan's politics just take a chillpill and sit it out for a while because its just not going to happen this week.
Share and Enjoy - Aaron
I still remember that moment so well because of the reactions of my fellow classmates. The majority of which were cheering and clapping. I remember this one kid Tom who was going on about how great it was all day.
I was no fan of the president, at the time probably only because my parents weren't, but I remember sort of taking it all in that day not knowing how to react.
At dinner I talked about it with my parents and distinctly remembered a conversation about how as much as you hate the guy you should never take glee in somebodys pain that way.
Then after the president recovered the dinner table was full of Reagan-bashing on a nightly basis for the next seven plus years. So while the current eulogys on TV are inevitable I just turn them off. I just accept they won't be objective about the reagan legacy. This will just last for a week or so, then as we move away from his death, the historic record will be more clear. When Nixon died ten years ago there was the same kind of lovefest for a bad president but now those TV eulogies are long forgotten and we are free to constructively talk about his era.
So the problem in this forum is that what passes for political talk on radio and tv these days is usually personal attacks and exagerations and not fact-based discussions. So it then transfers into our culture and places like this site and we end up getting nowhere and making a lot of enemies.
So if you want a reasonable and rational discussion about Reagan's politics just take a chillpill and sit it out for a while because its just not going to happen this week.
Share and Enjoy - Aaron
evildave
Unregistered
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charley_bigtime said:
Ahh, it's all about human anatomy to you, is it?
DanishDynamite
Penultimate Amazing
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Reagan left the White House more popular among Americans than when he entered it (winning in a veritable landslide against Carter). I don't know the official metric for determining a great president, but the above would seem to count on the pro side.
From my perspective as a non-American I would say that what I most remember about Reagan (aside from "Iran-Contra", "Weapons-for-hostages", and Astrology) is his crusade against communism, the Evil Empire. When Reagan became president he greatly increased the US defense budget, culminating in his Strategic Defense Initiative. This arms-race was an attempt at breaking the Russians. A dangerous gamble in my opinion. Still, the Soviet Union did collapse. According to Margeret Thatcher, Reagan won the Cold War without firing a shot. According to Gorbachov, who has much praise for Reagan, the strains within the USSR were already at the breaking point and Reagans policy at most marginally hastened the collapse. One may doubt Gorbi's view but I think the fact that the initiator of "glasnost" and "perestrioka" was even made the head of the USSR underscores that the powers that be within the USSR knew that something had to change.
Anyway, my opinion is that Reagan was a man of simple yet unshakeable beliefs and that these beliefs were not necessarily worthy of contempt.
From my perspective as a non-American I would say that what I most remember about Reagan (aside from "Iran-Contra", "Weapons-for-hostages", and Astrology) is his crusade against communism, the Evil Empire. When Reagan became president he greatly increased the US defense budget, culminating in his Strategic Defense Initiative. This arms-race was an attempt at breaking the Russians. A dangerous gamble in my opinion. Still, the Soviet Union did collapse. According to Margeret Thatcher, Reagan won the Cold War without firing a shot. According to Gorbachov, who has much praise for Reagan, the strains within the USSR were already at the breaking point and Reagans policy at most marginally hastened the collapse. One may doubt Gorbi's view but I think the fact that the initiator of "glasnost" and "perestrioka" was even made the head of the USSR underscores that the powers that be within the USSR knew that something had to change.
Anyway, my opinion is that Reagan was a man of simple yet unshakeable beliefs and that these beliefs were not necessarily worthy of contempt.
charley_bigtime
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evildave said:
No you prat. I've already told you - I'm not an American.
*Do* pay attention.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A128152
The Central Scrutinizer
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CFLarsen said:
Of course, looking on the brightside, you meet new people everyday!
evildave
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charley_bigtime said:
But you keep mentioning human anatomy.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=prat
charley_bigtime
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evildave said:
No I don't. Sorry about that - you got it wrong.
Another false assumption no less.
So I awake to the unrelenting news of Reagan's death and the stomach-curdling platitudes for a dangerous buffoon who presided over the sale of crack cocaine to his own people by the CIA.
Didn't Reagan say while there was a breath in his body he's support the Contra Freedom Fighters?
I was watchin a BBC2 review of him not so long back and the moment Nicaragua/Contra/Sandinista came up he was *on*, he knew - or thought he knew - who was who and what was what - and who to support and fully. Passion politics stuff.
The man is complicit in genocide (irregardless of how many hate using that word for anthing less than their preferred cause).
So as predictable, the inevitable tributes are polluting our TV screens and praises to the "Great Communicator" are being sung across the TV channels. Some are spoken with poe-faced sincerity by people who genuinely do believe that Reagan was a great visionary. Personally, I have great contempt for those journalists and pundits who know full well the truth but play along with the deception nonetheless. So, since Reagan’s body is already being made to dance to the establishment’s wishes -one final time- here are some lines of his, which I think illustrate the truth more clearly -and rebut those hacks who have their tongues wedged so firmly in their cheeks.
"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981
"A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?" -- Ronald Reagan, 1966, opposing expansion of Redwood National Park as governor of California
"I have flown twice over Mt St. Helens out on our west coast. I'm not a scientist and I don't know the figures, but I have a suspicion that that one little mountain has probably released more sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere of the world than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving or things of that kind that people are so concerned about." -- Ronald Reagan, 1980. (Actually, Mount St. Helens, at its peak activity, emitted about 2,000 tons of sulfur dioxide per day, compared with 81,000 tons per day by cars.)
"Facts are stupid things." -- Ronald Reagan, 1988, a misquote of John Adams, "Facts are stubborn things."
"We think there is a parallel between federal involvement in education and the decline in profit over recent years." -- Ronald Reagan, 1983.
"Fascism was really the basis for the New Deal." Ronald Reagan, 1976, on his failed campaign for the Republican nomination.
"The best minds are not in government." -- Ronald Reagan. (Not in his government anyway.)
"You can't help those who simply will not be helped. One problem that we've had, even in the best of times, is people who are sleeping on the grates, the homeless who are homeless, you might say, by choice." -- President Reagan, 1/31/84, on Good Morning America, defending his administration against charges of callousness.
On 8/24/85 President Reagan tells an interviewer that the "reformist administration" of South African president P.W. Botha has made significant progress on the racial front. "They have eliminated the segregation that we once had in our own country," says the President, "the type of thing where hotels and restaurants and places of entertainment and so forth were segregated - that has all been eliminated." (In response to questions a few days later as to whether President Reagan actually thought racial segregation has been eliminated in South Africa, Larry Speakes said "Not totally, no.")
"The American Petroleum Institute filed suit against the EPA [and] charged that the agency was suppressing a scientific study for fear it might be misinterpreted... The suppressed study reveals that 80 percent of air pollution comes not from chimneys and auto exhaust pipes, but from plants and trees." Presidential candidate Ronald Reagan, in 1979.
"You know, if I listened to him long enough, I would be convinced that we're in an economic downturn, and that people are homeless, and people are going without food and medical attention, and that we've got to do something about the unemployed." -- President Reagan, 6/8/88, accusing Michael Dukakis of misleading campaign rhetoric.
"This fellow they've nominated claims he's the new Thomas Jefferson. Well let me tell you something; I knew Thomas Jefferson. He was a friend of mine and Governor... You're no Thomas Jefferson!" -- Ronald Reagan, 1992.
And these from people who worked with him,
"I don't think he's read the report in detail. It's five and a half pages, double-spaced." -- Larry Speakes, 10/5/84, responding to the question of whether President Reagan has read the House report on the latest Beirut truck bombing.
"He's just so programmed. We tried to tell him what was in the bill but he doesn't understand. Everyone, including Republicans, were just shaking their heads." -- Rep. Mary Rose Oskar (D-OH), 11/13/85, on President Reagan's reaction to the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings balanced budget bill.
The parallels between Reagan and Bush II are becoming ever more obvious.
I suspect it's becoming a Republican tradition to instal a wooden figurehead, while the Ship of State is steered by some carefully-anonymous clever Dick(s) - Cheney and cohorts, for example. Bush and Reagan are doubly useful: not only are they perfect identification-figures for millions of clueless and inarticulate voters ("If he can make it, so can I"); they are also ideal hate-figures for the witty, "liberal", "critical" intelligentsia ("I'm so much smarter than he is"). Beware wasting too much time and energy pelting the likes of Ronnie and George with rotten fruit, while the anonymous cryptocrats backstage are going about their business undisturbed: writing the script, and making a killing.
Cheney is to Bush as Kissinger was to Reagan as Uncle Tom Parker was to the ruined Elvis Presley.
We can be astonished by Reagan's gaffes over the years, but that said, there's no doubt that he willingly supported dreadful, rampaging campaigns at great cost to US neighbours, knowing the consequences. He wasn't merely dumb, but happy and proud to be so. The only nice thing I can say is that Reagan didn't have, as far as I recall, the born-again rapture overlay we have with Bush II.
Didn't Reagan say while there was a breath in his body he's support the Contra Freedom Fighters?
I was watchin a BBC2 review of him not so long back and the moment Nicaragua/Contra/Sandinista came up he was *on*, he knew - or thought he knew - who was who and what was what - and who to support and fully. Passion politics stuff.
The man is complicit in genocide (irregardless of how many hate using that word for anthing less than their preferred cause).
So as predictable, the inevitable tributes are polluting our TV screens and praises to the "Great Communicator" are being sung across the TV channels. Some are spoken with poe-faced sincerity by people who genuinely do believe that Reagan was a great visionary. Personally, I have great contempt for those journalists and pundits who know full well the truth but play along with the deception nonetheless. So, since Reagan’s body is already being made to dance to the establishment’s wishes -one final time- here are some lines of his, which I think illustrate the truth more clearly -and rebut those hacks who have their tongues wedged so firmly in their cheeks.
"Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." -- Ronald Reagan, 1981
"A tree is a tree. How many more do you have to look at?" -- Ronald Reagan, 1966, opposing expansion of Redwood National Park as governor of California
"I have flown twice over Mt St. Helens out on our west coast. I'm not a scientist and I don't know the figures, but I have a suspicion that that one little mountain has probably released more sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere of the world than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving or things of that kind that people are so concerned about." -- Ronald Reagan, 1980. (Actually, Mount St. Helens, at its peak activity, emitted about 2,000 tons of sulfur dioxide per day, compared with 81,000 tons per day by cars.)
"Facts are stupid things." -- Ronald Reagan, 1988, a misquote of John Adams, "Facts are stubborn things."
"We think there is a parallel between federal involvement in education and the decline in profit over recent years." -- Ronald Reagan, 1983.
"Fascism was really the basis for the New Deal." Ronald Reagan, 1976, on his failed campaign for the Republican nomination.
"The best minds are not in government." -- Ronald Reagan. (Not in his government anyway.)
"You can't help those who simply will not be helped. One problem that we've had, even in the best of times, is people who are sleeping on the grates, the homeless who are homeless, you might say, by choice." -- President Reagan, 1/31/84, on Good Morning America, defending his administration against charges of callousness.
On 8/24/85 President Reagan tells an interviewer that the "reformist administration" of South African president P.W. Botha has made significant progress on the racial front. "They have eliminated the segregation that we once had in our own country," says the President, "the type of thing where hotels and restaurants and places of entertainment and so forth were segregated - that has all been eliminated." (In response to questions a few days later as to whether President Reagan actually thought racial segregation has been eliminated in South Africa, Larry Speakes said "Not totally, no.")
"The American Petroleum Institute filed suit against the EPA [and] charged that the agency was suppressing a scientific study for fear it might be misinterpreted... The suppressed study reveals that 80 percent of air pollution comes not from chimneys and auto exhaust pipes, but from plants and trees." Presidential candidate Ronald Reagan, in 1979.
"You know, if I listened to him long enough, I would be convinced that we're in an economic downturn, and that people are homeless, and people are going without food and medical attention, and that we've got to do something about the unemployed." -- President Reagan, 6/8/88, accusing Michael Dukakis of misleading campaign rhetoric.
"This fellow they've nominated claims he's the new Thomas Jefferson. Well let me tell you something; I knew Thomas Jefferson. He was a friend of mine and Governor... You're no Thomas Jefferson!" -- Ronald Reagan, 1992.
And these from people who worked with him,
"I don't think he's read the report in detail. It's five and a half pages, double-spaced." -- Larry Speakes, 10/5/84, responding to the question of whether President Reagan has read the House report on the latest Beirut truck bombing.
"He's just so programmed. We tried to tell him what was in the bill but he doesn't understand. Everyone, including Republicans, were just shaking their heads." -- Rep. Mary Rose Oskar (D-OH), 11/13/85, on President Reagan's reaction to the Gramm-Rudman-Hollings balanced budget bill.
The parallels between Reagan and Bush II are becoming ever more obvious.
I suspect it's becoming a Republican tradition to instal a wooden figurehead, while the Ship of State is steered by some carefully-anonymous clever Dick(s) - Cheney and cohorts, for example. Bush and Reagan are doubly useful: not only are they perfect identification-figures for millions of clueless and inarticulate voters ("If he can make it, so can I"); they are also ideal hate-figures for the witty, "liberal", "critical" intelligentsia ("I'm so much smarter than he is"). Beware wasting too much time and energy pelting the likes of Ronnie and George with rotten fruit, while the anonymous cryptocrats backstage are going about their business undisturbed: writing the script, and making a killing.
Cheney is to Bush as Kissinger was to Reagan as Uncle Tom Parker was to the ruined Elvis Presley.
We can be astonished by Reagan's gaffes over the years, but that said, there's no doubt that he willingly supported dreadful, rampaging campaigns at great cost to US neighbours, knowing the consequences. He wasn't merely dumb, but happy and proud to be so. The only nice thing I can say is that Reagan didn't have, as far as I recall, the born-again rapture overlay we have with Bush II.
Shane Costello
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Says the man who supported the dreadful, rampaging campaigns of the IRA, conducted without popular consent and at great cost to civilian life.
Dumb you most certainly are, sir. Happy and proud as well, like a pig wallowing in it's own crap.
evildave
Unregistered
E
On a lighter note:
A busload of politicians crashed into a tree near a farm. The farmer came out and buried all the bodies.
When the sheriff finally arrived, he looked at the bus and the grave and asked "Were they all dead?"
The farmer said "Well, some of them claimed they weren't, but you know how all them politicians LIE!"
What to you get when you have 1,000 politicians at the bottom of the sea?
A good start.
A little boy goes to his dad and asks, "What is Politics?" Dad says, "Well son, let me try to explain it this way: I'm the head of the family, so call me The President. Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we call her the Government. We're here to take care of your needs, so we'll call you the People. The nanny, we'll consider her the Working Class. And your baby brother, we'll call him the Future. Now think about that and see if it makes sense." So the little boy goes off to bed thinking about what Dad has said. Later that night, he hears his baby brother crying, so he gets up to check on him. He finds that the baby has severely soiled his diaper. So the little boy goes to his parent's room and finds his mother sound asleep. Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny's room. Finding the door locked, he peeks in the keyhole and sees his father in bed with the nanny. He gives up and goes back to bed. The next morning, the little boy says to his father, "Dad, I think I understand the concept of politics now." The father says, "Good, son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is all about." The little boy replies, "The President is screwing the Working Class while the Government is sound asleep. The People are being ignored and the Future is in deep ◊◊◊◊."
Why are there only 12 Republicans in heaven?
If there were any more, it'd be hell.
Nope, you keep saying 'prat', and according to the dictionary, that's a piece of human anatomy. Obviously you have a communication problem.
A busload of politicians crashed into a tree near a farm. The farmer came out and buried all the bodies.
When the sheriff finally arrived, he looked at the bus and the grave and asked "Were they all dead?"
The farmer said "Well, some of them claimed they weren't, but you know how all them politicians LIE!"
What to you get when you have 1,000 politicians at the bottom of the sea?
A good start.
A little boy goes to his dad and asks, "What is Politics?" Dad says, "Well son, let me try to explain it this way: I'm the head of the family, so call me The President. Your mother is the administrator of the money, so we call her the Government. We're here to take care of your needs, so we'll call you the People. The nanny, we'll consider her the Working Class. And your baby brother, we'll call him the Future. Now think about that and see if it makes sense." So the little boy goes off to bed thinking about what Dad has said. Later that night, he hears his baby brother crying, so he gets up to check on him. He finds that the baby has severely soiled his diaper. So the little boy goes to his parent's room and finds his mother sound asleep. Not wanting to wake her, he goes to the nanny's room. Finding the door locked, he peeks in the keyhole and sees his father in bed with the nanny. He gives up and goes back to bed. The next morning, the little boy says to his father, "Dad, I think I understand the concept of politics now." The father says, "Good, son, tell me in your own words what you think politics is all about." The little boy replies, "The President is screwing the Working Class while the Government is sound asleep. The People are being ignored and the Future is in deep ◊◊◊◊."
Why are there only 12 Republicans in heaven?
If there were any more, it'd be hell.
charley_bigtime said:
Nope, you keep saying 'prat', and according to the dictionary, that's a piece of human anatomy. Obviously you have a communication problem.
Costello:
"Says the man who supported the dreadful, rampaging campaigns of the IRA, conducted without popular consent and at great cost to civilian life."
Not quite but why ruin your smooth line in bigotry.
It`s timely you show up to beat your drum or is it the flute for you?... afterall Marching season is upon us again...no surrender and all that fvck the pope stuff. Those schoolkids just love to hear that abuse.
"Says the man who supported the dreadful, rampaging campaigns of the IRA, conducted without popular consent and at great cost to civilian life."
Not quite but why ruin your smooth line in bigotry.
It`s timely you show up to beat your drum or is it the flute for you?... afterall Marching season is upon us again...no surrender and all that fvck the pope stuff. Those schoolkids just love to hear that abuse.
charley_bigtime
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evildave said:
Yes, I clearly posted a link which explained my interpretation of the word prat which you probably read but continue to ignore, for reasons unknown to anyone except yourself.
Clearly you have the mind of a toy.
Bye.
evildave
Unregistered
E
Ta-ta!
charley_bigtime
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evildave said:
I'm afraid I'm not - but I'm not surprised you think that way.
http://www.websters-online-dictionary.org/definition/Xhosa-english/ta/tata.html
The Central Scrutinizer
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Bruce said:
You got that right! Before Jelly Bellies, I thought jelly beans were those awful sugary things that you got on easter.
Shane Costello
Graduate Poster
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Why don't you answer a few simple questions?
The dull hollow sound you might be hearing is the feeble attempt at a cognitive process going on in that hide covered waste of space between your ears. The whistling sound is the hot air escaping as you, yet again, articulate on things you haven't the slightest notion about.
No, it's voting season. We don't go in for marching here west of the Shannon. I'll be exercising my duty as a proud Irish citizen. Can you vote in Ireland?
The only abusive language anyone hereabouts will be hearing is from the representatives of a terrorist organisation, who'll be criticizing American abuses in Iraq and elsewhere (their own abuses were just tragic consequences that are best forgotten), and asking for neutrality to be enshrined in the Irish constitution, agitating for the release of cop killers, while all the time holding on to their weapons.
BTW I may stand accused of hijacking the thread, and apologies for that. But sometimes morons shouldn't be suffered.
If it was down to you the IRA would still be active, even as big a bigot as Thatcher was, she knew she had to talk to them. Of course, they lied about it because they knew little bigots like yourself would have got all upset and started crying foul. Aawwwwww.
I get the idea you are a bit pissed off they aren`t active anymore because pub commentators always did like to prattle The Sun headlines about Ireland. .... but never mind there are those nasty sandni**ers now to fill the space...there`s always someone for a bigot to hate, it`s one of those nice movable feast/double standard qualities you have.
No Surrender...yeah right
I get the idea you are a bit pissed off they aren`t active anymore because pub commentators always did like to prattle The Sun headlines about Ireland. .... but never mind there are those nasty sandni**ers now to fill the space...there`s always someone for a bigot to hate, it`s one of those nice movable feast/double standard qualities you have.
No Surrender...yeah right