• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

Cont: Roe v Wade overturned - this is some BS part II

Hercules56 said:
#1. "Late term" abortions are a thing, its the term used to describe abortions performed during the 3rd trimester.

However the KFF prefers to call them "Later abortions". :rolleyes:

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/
Click to expand...

To be clear, it looks like you're reacting to -

“‘Late-term abortion’ isn’t a thing,” said Katherine Kraschel, an assistant professor of law and health at Northeastern University. “It’s a term created by people who oppose abortion to spread disinformation and shame people who have abortion. It has no basis in medicine or science.”

Moreover, less than 1% of all US abortions are performed at or past 21 weeks of pregnancy, according to Centers for Disease Control (CDC) data. While there isn’t great data on why people seek abortions later on in pregnancy, many of those cases may involve individuals whose pregnancies have been diagnosed with devastating fetal abnormalities – many of which can only be detected past the first trimester.

Women may also get abortions later on in pregnancy because it was too difficult to get one earlier. People who work at abortion funds have told the Guardian that, since Roe fell, they have seen an increase in people getting abortions in their second trimester of pregnancy.

“If the concern is really with abortions that happen later on in pregnancy, then the laws that they’re putting in place to restrict access to abortion are only increasing the likelihood that someone has to access abortion further on in the pregnancy,” Kraschel said.
Click to expand...

Your gripe seems... a little misplaced?

ETA: To push a bit more on that, though -

Stop Using the Phrase "Late-Term Abortion"

It's misleading and medically inaccurate.

There is no specific medical definition for a “late-term abortion,” and because of that, abortion opponents are using it to mean anything they want.

<snip>

"Though many media reports and other literature use the phrase ‘late-term abortion,’ it is not accurate and should not be used,” Hal Lawrence, M.D., executive vice president and CEO of ACOG, said in an email. “A full-term pregnancy is defined as a pregnancy with a gestational age between 39 weeks and 40 weeks, 6 days. ‘Late term’ refers to a pregnancy with a gestational age of 41 weeks to 41 weeks, 6 days. Abortions are not performed at ‘late term.’”

He added, "Because different methods of inducing abortion are effective at different stages of pregnancy, abortions are sometimes categorized by whether they occur in the first or second trimester. Clinicians sometimes use the term ‘early abortion’ to refer to abortions that occur up to 70 days gestational age, when medication abortion using mifepristone and misoprostol are highly effective. The term ‘later abortion’ is sometimes used to describe abortions that occur after 12 weeks gestational age. Describing these abortions as ‘late-term’ is simply inaccurate."

<snip>

According to Schoen, the use of the phrase “late-term abortion” is actually meant to group together any procedure after the first trimester and erase any distinction in developmental along the gestational period of the pregnancy. “It immediately makes the conceptual jump to the idea of a viable fetus, and implies that they are all viable at that point,” she said. “There is no longer a second trimester. Instead they hope to make the emotional jump to just a viable baby. If it’s not a first-trimester abortion, then it is a viable baby, and there is nothing in terms of development in between.”

When abortion opponents define “late-term abortion” themselves, their words sound very similar to Schoen’s.
Click to expand...

So, yeah, there a real point to be made there.

Hercules56 said:
#2. There is no such thing as a "USAian". It literally doesn't exist.
Click to expand...

It does. It's a rare, but usually derogatory term to describe the people of the USA, seemingly created out of annoyance that the people of the USA prefer to be the only people called Americans, despite the USA being only one limited portion of the people who live in the Americas. It's been pushed before in these forums, either way, and been pushed back against.

Either way, minor semantic issues are minor semantic issues.
 
Last edited:
Aridas said:
To be clear, it looks like you're reacting to -



Your gripe seems... a little misplaced?

ETA: To push a bit more on that, though -

Stop Using the Phrase "Late-Term Abortion"

It's misleading and medically inaccurate.



So, yeah, there a real point to be made there.



It does. It's a rare, but usually derogatory term to describe the people of the USA, seemingly created out of annoyance that the people of the USA prefer to be the only people called Americans, despite the USA being only one limited portion of the people who live in the Americas. It's been pushed before in these forums, either way, and been pushed back against.

Either way, minor semantic issues are minor semantic issues.
Click to expand...

#1. OK, from now on I shall call it "Late Abortions" and drop the word "term".

#2. The USA is the only nation on Earth that has the term "America" in it. So rather than call us "Citizens of the United States of America" we are simply called "Americans". Keep in mind there is no continent called "America", there is "North America and South America".

So our use of the shorthand term "American", is totally appropriate.
 
Hercules56 said:
#1. OK, from now on I shall call it "Late Abortions" and drop the word "term".
Click to expand...

If you want. I, at least, am not trying to actually police usage. It would be sorta pointless with how prevalent and normalized the usage of the term is by now. Rather, I'm just trying to make the case being made more clear, because there is a real case to be made that doesn't deserve derision and knee-jerk rejection.

Hercules56 said:
#2. The USA is the only nation on Earth that has the term "America" in it. So rather than call us "Citizens of the United States of America" we are simply called "Americans". Keep in mind there is no continent called "America", there is "North America and South America".

So our use of the shorthand term "American", is totally appropriate.
Click to expand...

For what it's worth, you don't really need to defend that to me. As I noted, I consider it to be a minor semantic thing and the correction offered is a minor one - it does exist as a term, but it's entirely reasonable for you to be unaware of it and also for you to object to its usage.
 
Last edited:
catsmate said:
Most pregnancies end in spontanous abortion. Hercules56's argument fails even more completely.
Click to expand...

Many women have had a spontaneous abortion and not even known it. They think they just had an unusually heavy period or their period was late.
 
Stacyhs said:
Many women have had a spontaneous abortion and not even known it. They think they just had an unusually heavy period or their period was late.
Click to expand...
Exactly, before five weeks of pregnancy most women are unaware of it and such pregnancies commonly end in spontanous termination.

But then certain people are unwilling to accept inconvenient facts....
 
Gulliver Foyle said:
A) not everybody works on the same timeframe as you and b) after a while responding to your information free nonsense gets tedious.
Click to expand...
Indeed. Certain posters seem obsessed with crying "gotcha" when someone fails to immeditely indulge their fancies.
 
I find it funny and a bit sad that standing by the logic proposed in Roe v Wade, is now considered by many here to be "Conservative". I guess you're only a Liberal or Moderate if you accept abortion demand with no limits, until the 28th week?
 
Hercules56 said:
Can I get in on that lawsuit? Easy money!!!!
Click to expand...

Yes, but if you read the article, she's now finding it harder to get treated because local hospitals see her as a litigious threat.

She should have never had to resort to this in the first place.
 
Hercules56 said:
I find it funny and a bit sad that standing by the logic proposed in Roe v Wade, is now considered by many here to be "Conservative". I guess you're only a Liberal or Moderate if you accept abortion demand with no limits, until the 28th week?
Click to expand...

I'm not a big fan of labels. Nevertheless I have always believed in full bodily autonomy for everyone. Whether Roe is the law of the land or not.
 
Hercules56 said:
Do you believe we should have the right to harm ourselves?
Click to expand...

Are you of sound mind? That you feel you have a need to harm yourself might need to be examined. We allow for males to be circumcised as well as piercings. Isn't that harm?

I believe in the right for terminal patients to die.

When I say full body autonomy, i mean that you have the inviolable right to prevent others from using your body without your permission. That includes a fetus.
 
Hercules56 said:
Do you believe we should have the right to harm ourselves?
Click to expand...

Isn't that what people are doing when they drink the poison that is alcohol?

In a different sense, that's also what people are doing when they hit their thumb with a hammer.

Do you oppose the right to harm oneself that is invoked in either case? If not, that's likely not quite the argument that you wanted.

Separately, I'm entirely fine with people having the option to die with dignity, either way, so I admit that I'm not inclined to be impressed with that general line of argument. There are nuances that could certainly be pointed out, but meh. This discussion is barely relevant to the thread topic at present, I think.

Going back a little, labels aside, as a general rule, I'm more inclined to support whichever policy is most beneficial to society in the bigger picture, regardless, because I see acting to that end as being government's fundamental purpose. Hence why I firmly support the legalization of abortion. Restrictions on abortions after meaningful viability affect a small enough portion that it's difficult to determine significant impact, though, so I generally don't have all that much of an opinion on shoulds there.
 
Last edited:
Aridas said:
Isn't that what people are doing when they drink the poison that is alcohol?
Click to expand...

I think you'll find cigarettes are legal everywhere, despite killing fifty times more people than all illegal drugs combined.

I'm not even going to mention obesity.

We allow people to self-harm in many ways, including removal of body parts.
 
acbytesla said:
Are you of sound mind? That you feel you have a need to harm yourself might need to be examined. We allow for males to be circumcised as well as piercings. Isn't that harm?

I believe in the right for terminal patients to die.

When I say full body autonomy, i mean that you have the inviolable right to prevent others from using your body without your permission. That includes a fetus.
Click to expand...

Roe v Wade said that women's right to abortion on demand ends when the child becomes viable and can survive outside of the womb.

Do you disagree with this reasoning?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom