Cont: Roe v Wade overturned - this is some BS part II

[ponderingturtle]

Sorry, not a black or white kinda guy. My world is various shades of grey. Especially with regards to political & social issues. Im also not against late term abortion to save the life of the mother.

But of course you have to wait for their life to be in danger, can't go letting abortions for birth defects not compatible with life. So with an ectopic pregnancy you have to wait for the fallopian tube to rupture. Otherwise you are interfering with nature or something.

 

[Hercules56]

You do understand autorities and rights are two separate, and often quite different cateories of items, don't you?

Not even Roe made that judgement based on the 9th Amendment.

 

[Hercules56]

But of course you have to wait for their life to be in danger, can't go letting abortions for birth defects not compatible with life. So with an ectopic pregnancy you have to wait for the fallopian tube to rupture. Otherwise you are interfering with nature or something.

Yes, I believe 3rd trimester abortions should also be allowed when serious or deadly birth defects are discovered with the fetus.

 

[ponderingturtle]

Yes, I believe 3rd trimester abortions should also be allowed when serious or deadly birth defects are discovered with the fetus.

Then you should start taking serious issues with the people writing laws, they don't like to carve out exemptions even for dead fetuses, because until it goes all septic just having a dead fetus is not justification for an abortion, it has to be actively life threatening.

Otherwise you are in danger of allowing everyone who has an incomplete miscarriage to get an abortion.

 

[Hercules56]

Then you should start taking serious issues with the people writing laws, they don't like to carve out exemptions even for dead fetuses, because until it goes all septic just having a dead fetus is not justification for an abortion, it has to be actively life threatening.

Otherwise you are in danger of allowing everyone who has an incomplete miscarriage to get an abortion.

As I have said several times here, I in general agree with the rules and logic set forth in Roe and Casey.

Abortion on demand allowed pretty much without question during the first and second trimester, during the third trimester only to save the mother's life or if there are severe fetal deformities or disease.

I don't support pretty much all of the new severely restrictive abortion rules that have been made after Dobbs.

And yet for some reason my support for the logic and rules set forth by Roe & Casey are considered by some here to be too extreme.

 

[Blue Mountain]

You can pretty much guarantee these pompous asses would immediately change their minds. If men were the ones who had to go through pregnancy and childbirth, the right to choose would not be in dispute.

Yet many females are rabildy pro-life, too. I suspect many of them have children o f their own.

 

[acbytesla]

Yet many females are rabildy pro-life, too. I suspect many of them have children o f their own.

It's a much larger minority among women than it is among men.

 

[Hercules56]

Yet many females are rabildy pro-life, too. I suspect many of them have children o f their own.

Fun fact. 45% of women who have abortions already have children. Many have already had an abortion, some have had 3+ abortions already.

 

[catsmate]

Giving up an organ to help another person survive is not a natural process. Childbirth is.

By banning late term abortion for certain situations, the government isn't forcing anyone to do anything other than to allow their natural processes to go forward.

That "argument", a variation on the naturalistic fallacy, is, frankly, stupid.
By virtue of this I assume you consider synthetic analgesics and antibiotics to be immoral?

 

[catsmate]

In that case, you should be entirely against abortion at any stage or for any reason. After all, it's also a natural process for any pregnancy to go forward at any stage and regardless of how it was conceived. It would be a natural process if a woman died from septicemia if her fetus died in utero and didn't naturally abort.

Most pregnancies end in spontanous abortion. Hercules56's argument fails even more completely.

 

[Hercules56]

That "argument", a variation on the naturalistic fallacy, is, frankly, stupid.
By virtue of this I assume you consider synthetic analgesics and antibiotics to be immoral?

LOL!!!!!! Good one.

 

[Hercules56]

Most pregnancies end in spontanous abortion. Hercules56's argument fails even more completely.

Only 26% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/...ians,10% of clinically recognized pregnancies.

 

[catsmate]

LOL!!!!!! Good one.

Perhaps you should think your "arguments" through in future? It might reduce your propensity to elementary idiocy.

 

[Hercules56]

Perhaps you should think your "arguments" through in future? It might reduce your propensity to elementary idiocy.

LOL!!! Another zinger!!!






..... And also ironic considering your failed "most" claim.

 

[Hercules56]

And crickets.

 

[Segnosaur]

Most pregnancies end in spontanous abortion. Hercules56's argument fails even more completely.

Only 26% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/...ians,10% of clinically recognized pregnancies.

There is currently contradictory figures regarding the percentage of pregnancies that end in spontaneous abortion/miscarriage.

From: Science Alert
Previous research has found that somewhere between 10 and 20 percent, or as many as 1 in 4 known pregnancies end in miscarriage, also known medically as spontaneous abortion... But there's one other very important qualifier to note: Many women don't even know they're pregnant initially; and, since most miscarriages happen in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, many miscarry without even knowing it's happening. It's these unknown miscarriages that make up the majority, according to Rice.

The researcher came up with his numbers by looking at statistics from in vitro fertilization, where they can better track who was pregnant in the first place and the result of the pregnancy.

 

[Hercules56]

There is currently contradictory figures regarding the percentage of pregnancies that end in spontaneous abortion/miscarriage.

From: Science Alert
Previous research has found that somewhere between 10 and 20 percent, or as many as 1 in 4 known pregnancies end in miscarriage, also known medically as spontaneous abortion... But there's one other very important qualifier to note: Many women don't even know they're pregnant initially; and, since most miscarriages happen in the first 12 weeks of pregnancy, many miscarry without even knowing it's happening. It's these unknown miscarriages that make up the majority, according to Rice.

The researcher came up with his numbers by looking at statistics from in vitro fertilization, where they can better track who was pregnant in the first place and the result of the pregnancy.

My information is 4 years younger and from a very well respected institution.

 

[catsmate]

The abortion myths Republicans are recycling to reframe a losing issue.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/27/abortion-myths-republicans

Good piece on the lies promulgated by the USAian Republicans, and which we've had repeated in this thread.

 

[catsmate]

Only 26% of pregnancies end in miscarriage.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/...ians,10% of clinically recognized pregnancies.

No. You appear to be using differences in terminology to avoid accepting that you are, as usual, wrong.
Most pregnancies end before five weeks, before 'miscarriage' is used, technically 'biochemical loss'.
No doubt you'll be back to attempt to wallpaper over your error.

 

[Hercules56]

The abortion myths Republicans are recycling to reframe a losing issue.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/27/abortion-myths-republicans

Good piece on the lies promulgated by the USAian Republicans, and which we've had repeated in this thread.

#1. "Late term" abortions are a thing, its the term used to describe abortions performed during the 3rd trimester.

However the KFF prefers to call them "Later abortions".

https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/fact-sheet/abortions-later-in-pregnancy/

#2. There is no such thing as a "USAian". It literally doesn't exist.