Responsible Tesla self driving car kills driver.

Darat said:
Isn't the evidence so far showing that the human and car's sensors were fooled? I really don't see this is an issue of a autonomous (because this isn't such a vehicle) car failing, it is sadly yet again human error.
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Yes, it is human error, but an error fully to be expected when somebody buys an up-market car that has these capabilities.

People can be idiots and think "the car will handle it". Personally, when I'm faced with dazzling light conditions I slow down and pay extra attention. If a dimwit has a car with autonomous capabilities it doesn't surprise me that they rely on the car.

Also personally, I'd find 'hands off' while being ready to take over at a moment's notice a lot more stressful that actually driving. If that's a common tendency then, again, people will tend to lose that concentration and leave it to the car. 'What's the point of spending all that money when you have to be super-vigilant?'

p.s. Tesla's claim that this still makes the car safer than the national average for fatalities strikes me as an appeal to bogus statistics. The national average includes tearaways racing their chums in poorly maintained vehicles, and the like.

eta: The deceased in this case had said: “You get to your destination slightly slower but at least now you don’t have to worry about anything. Just let it go.” My bolding.
 
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Aepervius said:
But the car is not sold as autonomous AFAIK, which is why tesla indicate the driver should be in control.
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Yep, but no shortage of people in this article who are clearly ignoring the advice, and no shortage of touting the car's 'autonomous mode'

Guardian

including the guy in the (very short) video who looks at the camera and has hands off.

This motoring journalist, on a UK motorway, driving at speed, is bragging about "maintaining eye contact" with the camera(man) in the passenger seat and rear seat. Check around 2:16 onwards for a minute or two

 
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Nearly 30 years ago, I sat on a jury for a civil case where the vehicles were positioned in a similar manner at impact. The trailer was at a 90 degree angle relative to the traffic flow, backing into the driveway of the operator. The driver of the car that hit the trailer claimed that she couldn't see the trailer because of the headlights of the car(s) stopped on the other side shining underneath the trailer.
 
GlennB said:
Yep, but no shortage of people in this article who are clearly ignoring the advice, and no shortage of touting the car's 'autonomous mode'
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Just because a lot of people use it wrong doesn't mean they're not using it wrong.
 
William Parcher said:
Tesla says that you are never supposed to think that the Autopilot will prevent an accident. The driver must remain vigilant and sweve or hit the brakes just as if it were like any other car. It has sensors that require you to keep both hands on the steering wheel or else it sounds warnings and begins to slow itself down.
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I don't see the point in a self-driving car that requires you to sit there, vigilant, prepared to drive at any instant.
 
TragicMonkey said:
I don't see the point in a self-driving car that requires you to sit there, vigilant, prepared to drive at any instant.
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IT'S NOT A SELF-DRIVING CAR, YET!

That's not the point of the system build into Teslas. Self-driving cars are the ultimate goal, but they're not finished or ready for wide distribution yet.

What Tesla (and some others) currently sell are "driving assistants". It helps you keep in lane, stick to the speed limit, keep a safe distance, monitor your blind spots, help you switch lanes and overtake, get into parking spots that are difficult to get into, and keep you awake along long boring stretches (the latter one is not part of Tesla's system, as far as I know, but is very popular with some German manufacturers cause it's a real problem over here).

Some systems (like on Mercedes) do not allow you to take the hands off the steering wheel when using them without alarms going off. Tesla's does, AFAIK.
 
elgarak said:
IT'S NOT A SELF-DRIVING CAR, YET!
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Well, excuse me for misinterpreting the term "self driving car" that's applied to it. Like in the thread title. What a weird mistake for me to make. "Self driving" certainly doesn't mean "self driving", what could I have been thinking?
 
TragicMonkey said:
I don't see the point in a self-driving car that requires you to sit there, vigilant, prepared to drive at any instant.
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It's the software equivalent of those early cars steered with a tiller bar. Crude, functional, not every early maker did it that way, and eventually the principle was replaced by better designs.
 
The truck driver is saying that the Tesla driver was watching Harry Potter when the crash occured. This is not confirmed.

Also this same driver had a near accident earlier this year and was forced to take control of the Tesla to avoid it. That incident was recorded on his onboard camera. That is confirmed.
 
William Parcher said:
Also this same driver had a near accident earlier this year and was forced to take control of the Tesla to avoid it. That incident was recorded on his onboard camera. That is confirmed.
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That contradicts what the OP quoted. Which is it?


BStrong said:
according to local media and public records. Mr. Brown had earlier in the year recorded a video of his car’s autopilot avoiding a crash and posted it on YouTube.[/I][/B]
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elgarak said:
IT'S NOT A SELF-DRIVING CAR, YET!

That's not the point of the system build into Teslas. Self-driving cars are the ultimate goal, but they're not finished or ready for wide distribution yet.

What Tesla (and some others) currently sell are "driving assistants". It helps you keep in lane, stick to the speed limit, keep a safe distance, ....
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Probably unwise, then, to call it "Autopilot". If they call it that, and the car can mostly handle itself, then people *will* take their hands off the wheel and lean onto the back seat to get a sandwich out of their bag, or whatever.
 
William Parcher said:
It seems to me that the driver must not have seen the truck at all because he never touched the brake pedal. How could a person ever suppress their own subconscious reaction and NOT hit the brakes in such a situation? How could you think that the Autopilot is going to save you right up until the moment of impact? The answer is that you wouldn't and you would slam the brakes.
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Perhaps you and I could not suppress the urge but that most certainly does not mean no one could suppress the urge. The guy had previously videotaped the car avoiding a crash. It is quite possible that he wanted to see how the car would avoid this crash so he suppressed the urge to swerve until it was too late to avoid the crash.

This is going to be a thing with any Autopilot car. People are not going to be able to suppress their own inputs (steering and braking) in spite of knowing that the car is supposed to do it all for you. I can imagine people getting Autopilot cars and trying them a bit and deciding they don't like it or it scares them. They will turn it off and never use it again.
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And many years from now we will do a comparison of fatal accidents per mile driven caused purely by autopilot and fatal accidents caused purely by live drivers. I think eventually, the latter will outnumber the former.
 
CynicalSkeptic said:
That contradicts what the OP quoted. Which is it?
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Below describes his April 5 incident...

It has also emerged that Brown - who served in the Navy for 11 years - narrowly avoided a very similar smash earlier this year (April 5), when his car did not notice a white truck turning in on him on the freeway...

He was involved in a similar near-miss on April 5 and posted a video of the close call online.

The video shows the Canton, Ohio, resident taking manual control of the Tesla to swerve out of the way of a white truck as it moved in front of him on the freeway.

He said of the incident: 'Once the roads merged, the truck tried to get to the exit ramp on the right and never saw my Tesla. I actually wasn't watching that direction and Tessy (the name of my car) was on duty with autopilot engaged.

'I became aware of the danger when Tessy alerted me with the "immediately take over" warning chime and the car swerving to the right to avoid the side collision.

'You can see where I took over when there's a little bit of blip in the steering. Tessy had already moved to the right to avoid the collision.'
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ar-recorded-near-miss-just-month-earlier.html
 
It was inevitable that there would eventually be a crash involving a fatality with autopilot enabled. This won't be the last one either. What we should do is learn from this and continue to improve the technology and hope that it continues to be safer with it on than off. Considering this is the first fatality in 130 million autopilot miles driven when the national average is one fatality for every 93 million miles, that is a good sign the current assist technology is working well (though of course there is always room for improvement, like getting other humans to stop driving their cars into oncoming traffic).

Autonomous capable cars are coming. They will be here and will replace the majority of vehicles on the road at some point. Knee-jerk reactions to the current flaws sound like people who complained about automatic elevators being dangerous when they were replacing the old fashioned manually driven-via-a-lever elevators.


ETA: Also, this from Tesla:

It is important to note that Tesla disables Autopilot by default and requires explicit acknowledgement that the system is new technology and still in a public beta phase before it can be enabled. When drivers activate Autopilot, the acknowledgment box explains, among other things, that Autopilot “is an assist feature that requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times," and that "you need to maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle” while using it. Additionally, every time that Autopilot is engaged, the car reminds the driver to “Always keep your hands on the wheel. Be prepared to take over at any time.” The system also makes frequent checks to ensure that the driver's hands remain on the wheel and provides visual and audible alerts if hands-on is not detected. It then gradually slows down the car until hands-on is detected again.
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https://www.teslamotors.com/blog/tragic-loss
 
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