Merged Rep. Giffords Shot In Tucson

[USEagle13]

It all comes down to censorship in the end.

For me, it's not worth repealing the 1st Amendment because a schizophrenic got violent.

Makes as much sense as banning dogs after the Son of Sam killings.

Yup would make more sense to ban cars too. Since they are responsible for killing thousands if not millions a year world wide.

In the US alone: "One of the few upsides to an ailing economy is the improvement in traffic accident deaths. The number of people who died in a car accident in 2009 was 33,963, which is almost 9 percent lower than the previous year."



Geee...I bet the decline is because most are broke so they walk or use the bus......

All the jobless bums I know in my family can't drive because they have no money and "borrow" constantly from others when in need of gas.

 

[quadraginta]

I can confirm that is what those are.

I thought the surveyor's mark had no ring about it.

There is a symbol similar to the gun-sight symbol on Palin's map which is used in surveying and building. It is normally associated with the site TBMs (temporary benchmarks) which are used to establish reference elevations. Most of the time it will only be seen in the civil pages of a set of building plans.

"Similar" is an operative term here. The survey symbol in question is a small circle divided into quadrants by lines which extend well beyond the circle's perimeter. Very unlike the icon Palin used with a large circle and lines which only barely cross the perimeter. In addition it is often not simple and unadorned. Often two of the diagonally opposite quadrants within the circle will be blacked in. It would not be confused with the gun-sight icon on the Palin map by anyone whose professional background would allow their recognition of it as a surveying symbol.

Which brings up another point. That group is relatively restricted. Even within the building industry there is a fairly substantial percentage of professionals who would have no clue that that is what it meant. I say this because I have had occasion to enlighten more than a few of them on the subject personally.

What this means is that very, very few of the people who look at Palin's map will have any idea at all that there might be any similarity to an obscure surveying symbol, and the very few who might have the knowledge to see that rather tenuous similarity will still have no doubts what the intended connotations were of the one used on that map.

For Palin to suggest otherwise is a specious evasion, which doesn't surprise me coming from her. What does surprise me is that there was anyone in her entourage with enough experience with anything as practical as surveying and building to suggest such a patently fatuous claim in the first place.

It did make me laugh when I first read her claim, though. She would do herself better if she would avoid such dissembling altogether and simply concede that such exhortations of thinly veiled threat are unfortunate and should be abandoned by everyone. She had an opportunity to go for the high ground but reverted to type instead, and is trying feeble, transparent denial.

 

[USEagle13]

What?

Sorry if you didn't catch it. I was being sarcastic.

 

[GeeMack]

Homeland Security has a huge job on its hands and is trying its best at not only protecting individuals while not infringing on their rights; but, also, stopping terror before it strikes. The only way they can accomplish this great feat is with the help of the people and the communities.

That's the only way? Then it's a good thing nobody's suggesting anything stupid and demonstrably ineffective like praying.

 

[fishbob]

numbered for my convenience:

1 - Right wing talk radio and the like; don't preach killing people. They are political shows that deal with policies. The way you change policies is through votes.

2 - They are simply "vote grabbers" whom entertain individuals while they work. That is why liberal shows don't do good on AM radio.

3 - A lot of liberals don't seem to work; or they come from families of "non-workers" and watch Judge Judy and the sorts instead of listening to AM radio.

1, 2 - I have listened to enough right wing talk radio to recognize that most of the shows are nominally political using the tactics of hate-mongering, fear-mongering, and outright lying.

3 - Almost certainly parroted from right wing talk radio, and completely devoid of fact.

 

[One Tenth]

The UK's Daily Mail headline on this story:

"American politician shot in the head by gunman who left six dead is cousin of Gwyneth Paltrow"

Keep it classy, Daily Mail.

 

[FattyCatty]

Democratic congressman proposes a bill that I think has 1st amendment concerns, in that he wants some speech to be illegal when applied to Congress. Aren't inciting to violence and making threats already covered under existing law? Is this legislations really needed?

Rep. Robert Brady, D-Pennsylvania, said he will introduce legislation making it a federal crime for a person to use language or symbols that could be perceived as threatening or inciting violence against a Member of Congress or federal official.

Brady's decision to offer the legislation comes less than 24 hours after a gunman attempted to assassinate Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, D-Arizona, in a shooting that claimed the lives of a federal judge, and a nine year-old girl, among others.

"The president is a federal official," Brady said in a telephone interview with CNN. "You can't do it to him; you should not be able to do it to a congressman, senator or federal judge.

"This is not a wake up call, this is major alarms going off," he said.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Thunder...on the map thing, that has got to be one of the stupidest most thunderous rants I've ever heard.

We have to stop the rhetoric while spewing even more huh?
That's your idea of a solution?

Fixed it for you.

 

[UWdude]

Democratic congressman proposes a bill that I think has 1st amendment concerns, in that he wants some speech to be illegal when applied to Congress. Aren't inciting to violence and making threats already covered under existing law? Is this legislations really needed?

Of course, there will always be a politician looking to capitalize on tragedy, by shaving the constitution a little more.


And of course, the whole "symbol" thing is a direct swipe at Sarah Palin.

"American politician shot in the head by gunman who left six dead is cousin of Gwyneth Paltrow"

That just makes it all the more tragic.

 

[Thunder]

Fixed it for you.

cute.

 

[USEagle13]

That's the only way? Then it's a good thing nobody's suggesting anything stupid and demonstrably ineffective like praying.

Ever heard of free-will?

 

[TraneWreck]

Ever heard of free-will?

Ever heard of Applejacks?

That was an awesome non sequitur.

 

[Thunder]

We have to stop the rhetoric while spewing even more huh?
That's your idea of a solution?

um..that's just a wee bit dishonest.

I never said we need to stop "rhetoric".

I said we need to stop "violent" and "revolutionary" rhetoric, did I not?

rhetoric is simply statements used to convince other people of an idea, goal, etc.

violent and revolutionary rhetoric, however, uses violent imagery, language, and discussion of revolution, in order to convince someone of a political goal or to attack an opponent.

there is a difference, ya know.

 

[BenBurch]

Ever heard of Applejacks?

That was an awesome non sequitur.

Hey! It's not liquor, the cider just froze.

 

[slingblade]

All the jobless bums I know in my family can't drive because they have no money and "borrow" constantly from others when in need of gas.

And when they asked for your shirt, did you give your coat, too?

I seem to recall some guy saying that...can't imagine where...

 

[quadraginta]

Represents the physical character of the marker;

This is what it looks like on the legend of a typical set of drawings.

Here it is, a little bigger.

There isn't a lot of similarity to these, I don't think.

Maybe to a particularly fixated Palin supporter, but not to very many others, I don't believe.

That wasn't the association which occurred to me when I first saw the Palin map, at any rate, and I worked with drawings which used that symbol on a daily basis for years as a construction field engineer. In fact, it didn't occur to me until I read the Palin excuse quoted up-thread..

That's when I started laughing.

 

[thaiboxerken]

Maybe to a particularly fixated Palin supporter, but not to very many others, I don't believe.

Even though she told people "don't retreat, reload?"

 

[FattyCatty]

CNN says a document from Jared Lee Loughner was found at an address they got from a paper on his person. The document said he was planning on killing Giffords. So definite premeditation. Also, charges have been filed and an attorney assigned (again according to CNN) --U.S. v. Loughner, 11-00035, U.S. District Court, District of Arizona.

 

[Skeptic Ginger]

It all comes down to censorship in the end.

For me, it's not worth repealing the 1st Amendment because a schizophrenic got violent.

Makes as much sense as banning dogs after the Son of Sam killings.

Thread's moving too fast to keep up so let me reply as if this is in response the the proposed bill making it illegal to call for killing a Congressperson even if it is done as a metaphor. If that isn't what you are talking about, it is closely related.

It's very dishonest to distort the proposed bill into what you are describing as "repealing the First Amendment". There are many exceptions to the First Amendment many involving safety issues, some involving porn, especially involving illegal activities like child porn. Why should it be a threat to free speech to make it illegal to call for the death of a politician? Seems like a no brainer to me.

What I find bizarre is not just for the right wing to be protesting the broad brush here rather than discussing the problem of death rhetoric, but to actually be defending the right to call for the death of your political enemies because you claim it is merely metaphorical.

 

[Thunder]

This is what it looks like on the legend of a typical set of drawings.

are you suggesting Sarah Palin has a theodolite and a level in her garage?

is it made by Topcon or Leica?