Re: Underdown and Release Form (name changed at request of thread starter)

[CFLarsen]

I'll repeat, he explains it every time such a matter comes up in a reading. People who watch the show will know this. If you cannot take my word for it, then don't. Perhaps RC and/or Clancie will chime in when they can and tell us if they've heard JE say this before. I know I have, and several times, not once, the latest example as I cited was the Wayne Brady reading. I hate when I have to repeat myself.

Don't you hate it even more when you don't actually answer the question? Where, exactly, in his book "Crossing Over", does he describe this? Or anywhere else, that we can check?

Why in the world wouldn't he have? If his dad wanted to come through, he'd have found a way, yes.

The sheer madness of that statement leaves me stunned. You really are completely nuts, neo. This is not personally, it is simply stating facts.

I did address the point, Claus. I responded in a very specific and effective manner, and it was ingnored by you, as per usual. When you begin playing the victim, it's always because I've made a good point, and you want to avoid addressing it. Ask me if I care?

No, you did not address the point. You attacked me personally. Be that as it may, please address the point. Why does your explanation differ so violently from what JE says?

Look, Claus! See that towel in the ring? Guess who threw it there????
..........neo

So, you give up backing up your claim? As usual....

 

[neofight]

The above doesn't depict the exact behavior that I was trying to describe in my earlier post, which is far less obvious than the above fishing expedition. If I can't find anything in the transcripts posted, I will write it down the next time I see it occur on CO.

Instig8R, in that excerpt, there is no ambiguity whatsoever about who JE is referring to. Normally, when JE talks about a spirit's "below", "to-the-side" or "above" status, he is referring to the energy's relationship to the sitter. But here, JE is coming right out and clearly stating that the mother figure has a younger energy who has also passed with her. That could be a son/nephew/grandson/friend's son etc.

You're right, this is not a case that demonstrates your claim that JE is *widening the net*. If anything, he is narrowing it down to real specifics, saying that the mom has this younger male energy there with her on the other side.

In the meantime, if anyone wants a good laugh on this rainy Saturday night, visit JE's sci-fi site, and play the celebrity readings.

Hey, is the Wayne Brady reading there? Claus might be interested in hearing it if it is, since it addresses the "grandfather" coming through as a "father" issue, or more accurately, the "grandmother" coming through as a "mother" issue. ......neo

 

[neofight]

No, I don't see Wayne Brady's reading there. Too bad. Well, maybe this week I'll make the time to transcribe just the relevant portion of his reading that relates to the grandma who raised him, who came through in his reading like his mom......neo

 

[CFLarsen]

Claus might be interested in hearing it if it is, since it addresses the "grandfather" coming through as a "father" issue, or more accurately, the "grandmother" coming through as a "mother" issue. ......neo

Actually, I am much, much more interested in learning where, exactly, in his book "Crossing Over", he describes how vital a role in upbringing a grandfather must have, before the grandfather is considered a father.

Not by example, but by his own explanation.

I would also like to know why your explanation differs so violently from what JE says.

 

[Instig8R]

Hi, CFLarsen!

I've watched plenty of episodes of CO, and what neo is claiming is accurate.

I have frequently heard JE state that if grandparents (or other individuals) have a big role in childrearing, then they appear to him as mother-figures or father-figures.

I don't recall reading this in OLT or in CO... but I have heard JE say it enough on TV. But then, he modifies his explanations as time goes on, because he is a "student" of mediumship... in the business for 18 years, yet still evolving. Get it? (Hint: Wiggle-wiggle.)

IMO, this is just another one of his "widening the net" ploys.

 

[CFLarsen]

Instig8R,

Fine with me. What I want to know is just exactly how much involvement a grandparent has to have in a kids' upbringing, before this kicks in.

That is, as you say, merely wiggle.

 

[Instig8R]

Instig8R, in that excerpt, there is no ambiguity whatsoever about who JE is referring to. Normally, when JE talks about a spirit's "below", "to-the-side" or "above" status, he is referring to the energy's relationship to the sitter. But here, JE is coming right out and clearly stating that the mother figure has a younger energy who has also passed with her. That could be a son/nephew/grandson/friend's son etc.

O.K., then, in the excerpt used, who is the younger energy? Is it the mother figure's son/nephew/grandson/friend's son etc.? Or, is it the sitter's son/nephew/grandson/friend's son etc.?

The way that JE presents the information, it can be interpreted either way... and that's why I feel he is using "wiggle-room" by being deliberately vague.

You're right, this is not a case that demonstrates your claim that JE is *widening the net*. If anything, he is narrowing it down to real specifics, saying that the mom has this younger male energy there with her on the other side.

Really? You really feel that JE is being specific in the excerpt that I posted? Yikes!

From reading that excerpt, can you tell whether the mom has her son or her grandson with her? Or, perhaps it's the sitter's cat?


I still plan on watching for the exact kind of vague statement that I'm really complaining about... but this will do for now, I guess!

 

[thaiboxerken]

What I want to know is just exactly how much involvement a grandparent has to have in a kids' upbringing, before this kicks in.

As long as it turns a miss into a hit, it doesn't matter to the believers.

It might not be too long until a dog counts as a parent figure in one of JE's readings.

 

[Clancie]

Posted by thaiboxerken

As long as it turns a miss into a hit, it doesn't matter to the believers.

It might not be too long until a dog counts as a parent figure in one of JE's readings.

Actually, tbk, if you ever watch the show, JE will typically bring through the "older male like a father", the sitter identifies grandfather and JE says something like, "That would only be the case if he was like a father to you, rasied you, like that. Did he?"

Same thing for mother=grandmother.

Not as vague as you think. Have a look sometime and see.

 

[neofight]

Actually, I am much, much more interested in learning where, exactly, in his book "Crossing Over", he describes how vital a role in upbringing a grandfather must have, before the grandfather is considered a father.

Who ever said that he mentioned it in "Crossing Over"? I said that I've heard him address it oftentimes on the show, "CO", during readings. Anyhow, he's said that the role must be "significant".

Not by example, but by his own explanation.

He's explained it many times.

I would also like to know why your explanation differs so violently from what JE says.

Say what??? It doesn't. What are you talking about?........neo

 

[neofight]

O.K., then, in the excerpt used, who is the younger energy? Is it the mother figure's son/nephew/grandson/friend's son etc.? Or, is it the sitter's son/nephew/grandson/friend's son etc.?

The way that JE presents the information, it can be interpreted either way... and that's why I feel he is using "wiggle-room" by being deliberately vague.

Well, from the excerpt that you posted, Instig8R, I would say that the younger energy is the mother figure's son/nephew/grandson/friend's son, etc. Here again is the quote....

.....she has her son with her or she's got a younger male figure that has crossed over, but she's got the
younger male who's there. That to me would be like a younger brother, son, grandson. Younger male figure is connected to Mom from what they are showing me.

JE feels that the younger male is definitely connected to the mother energy. Do you have the rest of the transcript? Does the sitter ever determine who these energies are?.......neo

Really? You really feel that JE is being specific in the excerpt that I posted? Yikes!

With regard to who the younger male energy is connected to? Yes.

I still plan on watching for the exact kind of vague statement that I'm really complaining about... but this will do for now, I guess!

I'll keep it in mind as well, Instig8R, while watching the new shows. They begin tomorrow, BTW. ........neo

 

[Instig8R]

Well, from the excerpt that you posted, Instig8R, I would say that the younger energy is the mother figure's son/nephew/grandson/friend's son, etc. Here again is the quote....

-snip-

JE feels that the younger male is definitely connected to the mother energy. Do you have the rest of the transcript? Does the sitter ever determine who these energies are?.......neo

Neo claims that JE is being specific in the following example, but admits that she doesn’t know who JE is describing either, other than it being a younger male connected to an older female figure (Mom or Mother-in-Law).

Even if I follow neo’s interpretation that the younger male energy would be in relationship to the older female spirit, and not in relationship to the sitter, there is still a very wide net. Here’s the excerpt again:

JOHN EDWARD:

" - Um, I'm going to say that I have an older female that's coming through that to me would be like Mother, or Mother N Law. There's some type of acknowledgement that the month of Feburary has a connection or the 2nd of a month is either a birthday or an anniversary from what they are showing me. Either she is telling me that she has her son with her or she's got a younger male figure that has crossed over, but she's got the younger male who's there. That to me would be like a younger brother, son, grandson. Younger male figure is connected to Mom from what they are showing me. So, I don't know if they are trying to tell me it's your Mother's who's passed, but they are acknowledging the older female. Do you understand that?"

The sitter, a man in the CO Gallery, claimed that the older female could be his deceased mother. Given this fact, and using neo’s interpretation, we can surmise the following: Mom has the younger male figure - connected to her - who’s there.

Accordingly, the younger male figure could be related to the sitter in the following ways:
:
If he is Mom’s younger brother - then he is Sitter’s uncle
If he is Mom’s son – then he is Sitter’s brother
If he is Mom’s grandson - then he is Sitter’s son or nephew

In effect, JE is able to identify that this sitter’s Mom is there. However, JE is unable to discern if it is the sitter’s uncle, brother, nephew or son who is accompanying Mom.

Wow! What confusion! JE can’t tell the sitter’s son from his uncle, his brother or his nephew. Imagine the fights at the funeral parlor over who gets to be the widow?

Sometimes, I’m not sure if I’m watching John Edward or Jerry Springer’s show.

 

[juninho]

What I want to know is just exactly how much involvement a grandparent has to have in a kids' upbringing, before this kicks in.

As long as it turns a miss into a hit, it doesn't matter to the believers.

It might not be too long until a dog counts as a parent figure in one of JE's readings.

All this talk of animals and telepathy led me to this complete and utter fruitcake Consultations with Gina Palmer

Sorry, I realise it's a bit off-topic, but I felt I had to share it. $100 an hour for a telephone consultation - I'm in the wrong job! - What's that tiddles - you would like to tell your owner that you hate them and that crap cat-food they give you - I'll pass on the message.

 

[RonSceptic]

You would think that will all of this comining through....


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JOHN EDWARD:

" - Um, I'm going to say that I have an older female that's coming through that to me would be like Mother, or Mother N Law. There's some type of acknowledgement that the month of Feburary has a connection or the 2nd of a month is either a birthday or an anniversary from what they are showing me. Either she is telling me that she has her son with her or she's got a younger male figure that has crossed over, but she's got the younger male who's there. That to me would be like a younger brother, son, grandson. Younger male figure is connected to Mom from what they are showing me. So, I don't know if they are trying to tell me it's your Mother's who's passed, but they are acknowledging the older female. Do you understand that?"
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


...that there would have been ample time for the spirt to have said something simple like 'my name is Freda Smith'. You know a clear statement of fact that could be immediately verified.

Why does it never work that way? How come we get lengthy diatribes about unverifyable generalities, but a something as simple as a full name is impossible to decipher without a question and answer guessing game with the sitter?

Truly odd. Unless of course the medium is cold reading. Then it all makes perfect sense.

 

[Leroy]

I am aware that it may be a criminal offense punishable by fine and/or imprisonment for anyone to do anything that would rig or anyway influence the outcome of the Program with the intent to deceive the viewing public, and to offer or to accept any information or secret assistance in connection with the Program. I agree that I will not participate in such acts or any deceptive or dishonest acts with respect to the Program, and I shall immediately notify Producer in the event I am approached to undertake any such acts.

This effectively rules out any skeptics. As we know, skeptics have an ability to influence paranormal phenomena, such as necromancy

I read a different meaning into it. I thought it meant that if a sitter was asked by John Edward [for example] to lie about a reading in order to deceive the public, than the sitter agrees to notify the producer and not partake of such a deception.

 

[CFLarsen]

All this talk of animals and telepathy led me to this complete and utter fruitcake Consultations with Gina Palmer

I especially loved this:

"Code of Ethics for Interspecies Telepathic Communicators"
...followed by a picture of a grashopper...

 

[Leroy]

posted by Instigator - I was very suspicious of the fact that when Chef Yan-Yan Leone and his cousins from Brunelli's Restaurant on the upper East Side were read on CO, JE began making statements that Yan-Yan knew could be meant for his cousin, Russ Brunelli. JE then had Yan-Yan call Russ at the restaurant, and JE proceeded to read Russ Brunelli over the telephone.

We later learned (in a post-reading segment) that Russ was supposed to be at the CO gallery, and gave up his ticket because he claimed he was too busy at the restaurant. Funny how the reading still went to him, via telephone. (Hint: The restaurant bears his name.)

OUCH! it makes a skeptical mind wonder

Posted by TLN - Clancie, wouldn't the simplest explanation be John Edward isn't really communicating with dead people and that’s why he needs this disclaimer?

Are you suggesting that we should accept the most simplest explanation? What if we did that in all investigations?

 

[Leroy]

Given an extra ticket by family members hoping to hear from his deceased grandfather, O'Neill attended a performance and was singled out by Edward, who received what he claimed were communications sent directly from the dead grandfather.

posted by CFLarsen - Dead grandfather comes through, no matter who in the family attended. Go figure

Good point - If the ticket holder is seated in a specific location that was previously assigned to his family that gave him the ticket, there is reason to be suspicious. The grandfather to this man would have been a family member to the others. JE doesn't say grandfather he usually say's, "Older male figure," that covers a lot of territory - uncle, older brother, father, grandfather.

Of course if the ticket holder was not assigned any specific seating location than I guess it wouldn't be as big a deal.

 

[Leroy]

by Renata - so although some believers left him, there are some desperate enough they still follow the man who was taped cheating for heaven's sake.

That always amuses me. Take the preacher Jim Baker, after he was caught spending [Gods] money on himself and his animals, thousands of his followers abandoned him - but there were many who stayed right in there and supported him. I suppose they believed he was framed, or lied about. They just wouldn't accept that he could do anything wrong. I guess those few have a need to believe that out-weighs common sense, evidence, etc.

 

[Leroy]

I've watched plenty of episodes of CO, and what neo is claiming is accurate. I have frequently heard JE state that if grandparents (or other individuals) have a big role in childrearing, then they appear to him as mother-figures or father-figures.

Yes, Neo is correct.

I've heard him say that on many occassions during the shows. And each time I heard him say it was my opinion that it covered his butt. If he say's "father" and it was really the "grandfather" all he has to do is convince the audience and the sitter that they were 'like parents' to the sitter. I am sure that in some cases they were like parents, but I have seen sitters reluctently agree that "yea I guess she was like a mother to me."