Randi on Anderson Cooper 360

[spiteme]

Ok, Silvia's business manager, I'll play:

Leviticus 19:26-28
'Do not practice divination or sorcery.

Leviticus 19:31
'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:27
27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'

Micah 3:7
7 The seers will be ashamed and the diviners disgraced. They will all cover their faces because there is no answer from God."

Doesn't seem like god is that thrilled with Silvia's line of work.

 

[Mariah]

Ok, Silvia's business manager, I'll play:

Leviticus 19:26-28
'Do not practice divination or sorcery.

Leviticus 19:31
'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:27
27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'

Micah 3:7
7 The seers will be ashamed and the diviners disgraced. They will all cover their faces because there is no answer from God."

Doesn't seem like god is that thrilled with Silvia's line of work.

Good job.

 

[Loss Leader]

Here's the email I sent to Anderson Cooper:

Thank you so much for your report on Sylvia Browne. After receiving fawning treatment from Montel Williams and CNN's Larry King, I was happy to see some attempt to hold her accountable for her behavior. I am saddened, however, that the current fad for "impartiality" kept you from taking a stronger stand. Sometimes, one side is just wrong.

Your report also introduced a fallacy. As you focussed on two or three cases where Sylvia may have had some correct guesses, you left out the hundreds of guesses she made every week that were demonstrably false. Even the worst sports team wins games occasionally. And, of course, you made no mention of the techniques of hot reading and cold reading that Sylvia employs to falsely improve her appearance of accuracy.

You also allowed several lies to slip through undetected. Ms. Browne's representative, Ms. Rossi, stated that Sylvia never charges for missing persons cases but then it Sylvia was shown to have charged $700.00 to the woman whose son was most definitely not in Tennessee.

I would be very glad to see a follow up to address the lies told by Ms. Browne's representative last night and to more clearly determine just how many guesses Sylvia makes on any given day.

For much more specific information on Sylvia's techniques and tactics, please continue to consult James Randi at www.randi.org and Robert Lancaster at www.stopsylviabrowne.com

Thank you for the report.

 

[articulett]

So SB's response is going to be "we don't know everything about this case", in other words suggesting that a boy may have been killed . Sadly I can just imagine how that will pan out in a few years with people who want to believe in her e.g. like John Edward's Dateline hot-reading.

I did enjoy watching Anderson dog her on that one...she suggested that maybe Sylvia wasn't exactly wrong--and Anderson Cooper was incredulous as if she had said "Sean Hornbeck" is dead. And then she obfuscates and says we don't know everything and maybe Sylvia was getting vibes from another dead kid....etc. With those kind of mental gymnastics, everything can count as a hit. Apparently Sylvia provided "satisfied customers" and yet, wasn't the woman with the kid who was supposed to be in Tennessee supposed to be a "satisfied" customer? And then the woman tries to distangle herself from Sylvia by saying that Sylvia didn't know about the world trade center bomber "as far as she knew...

And we're supposed to be afraid of Randi the gnomish atheist debunker?

But still, her fans will build up excuses in their mind. The more they've put on the line in endorsing her the more their brains will spin the story to see her as a person with a special god-given gift that the evil Randi is trying to destroy.

I, agree that it's the people where seeds of critical thinking can take root that are the main targets for Randi. But wouldn't it be cool, if just once...a true believer (in anything) came forth and said--I was wrong; I was fooling myself!
Because I suspect that the woman interviewed on behalf of Sylvia probably really believes in her or has never even wondered if she might be fooling herself--if you avoid your critics and their tests, you can avoid looking at that "scary thought" and continue to believe that the "non-believers" are the bad guys. But the fear and obfuscation and avoidance of the testing was telling.

I wish Anderson Cooper would talk about the challenge more. I think it's powerful to know that this challenge is out there; and no one has passed. I think it's important to hear just how simple the tests are, otherwise you get people thinking they're rigged.... Which reminds me...did you hear the scorn in the lady's voice when she referred to Randi as a "magician"? What was that all about? I'm guess she's saying, "Sylvia does what she does via a 'gift from god', and you're just faking it..."

 

[Mariah]

Here's the email I sent to Anderson Cooper:

Awesome.

 

[Orangutan]

I stayed up and watched it last night. It was a hoot. I emailed AC360 as others suggested. And I encourage everyone else to do so. I am a little concerned that Randi's explanations are best suited to the lecture hall and not TV. "The worst gambler remembers his few wins and forgets his many losses" would have been quicker snappier retort. If he's not interrupted he can go on to elaborate further but at least he would have got his point out.

 

[mpeacock]

Doesn't seem like god is that thrilled with Silvia's line of work.

This is even more interesting in light of the fact that Sylvia's business manager made such a big deal of the spiritual aspect and godliness of her work. She mentioned Sylvia's church, and also claimed that Sylvia doesn't have any powers, but that god works through her.

So, if that were actually true, then God's not that good at predicting the future either, since Sylvia's positive hit rate for 2006 is in the single digits, and through her, He was wrong so frequently.

I also found it funny that, as a superhero, apparently atheism is her kryptonite.

 

[T'ai Chi]

Here's the email I sent. Enjoy.

Hi,

I've been a skeptic for a long time. Skeptic, meaning one who has doubt in at least one area. So we're all skeptics, because we're all skeptical of something. But with the popping up of skeptical clubs in the organized skeptical movement, these clubs apparently want "skeptic" to mean to disbelieve exactly what they disbelieve.

I've noticed that a lot of these new skeptics apparently do not realize that people willingly pay psychics for their services, and are fully aware that nothing is guaranteed. If they believe fraud is happenning on a massive scale, they should contact the proper authorities instead of make webpages and appear on shows, which does absolutely nothing to investigate actual fraud.

Many critics of the new skepticism consider challenges by skeptical clubs interesting and entertaining, but ultimately nothing more than a mix of marketing, bullying, and a waste of time since it is not going through the regular channels of science. Moreover, even if someone did win a challenge, it wouldn't say anything about if the skill was real, since the people doing the test could have been tricked, the person could have won by chance, and a single success doesn't make science. Also, the skill would no longer be paranormal, it would be normal, and the rules for a paranormal challenge would no longer apply. We also are apparently not privy to having the statistics from such tests from skeptical clubs made easily accessible for scientific study; that is problematic. The idea of a lure of money truly not interesting people cannot penetrate their skulls either.

I've also noticed that many tend to misunderstand the roles of hosts like Larry King, Montel, etc. Their job is to host and converse, to entertain, not to take sides. Therefore, one has to wonder why they get angry with the hosts.

I hope your fine program continues to invite people from both camps on. In the future, however, when the issue of testing claims comes up, I'd try to find scientists who have track records of being impartial and non-emotional.

Thanks!

 

[Mariah]

I stayed up and watched it last night. It was a hoot. I emailed AC360 as others suggested. And I encourage everyone else to do so. I am a little concerned that Randi's explanations are best suited to the lecture hall and not TV. "The worst gambler remembers his few wins and forgets his many losses" would have been quicker snappier retort. If he's not interrupted he can go on to elaborate further but at least he would have got his point out.

I also am concerned about that. I heard a recent interview with Shermer and he really let the other guy have the show.

 

[Brown]

First, let me cross reference my thread about psychics and law enforcement.

Second, all that talk about religion and spirituality said something to me. The Browne representative tried to make it sound like it was a good vs. bad thing, with spiritual people having at least the propensity for being good and atheists being irretrievably bad; but when someone mentions religion in connection with an organization, a little red flag goes up for me:

TAX DODGE.

Does anyone know whether Browne claims tax-exempt status for her organization?

 

[Cthulhu]

Just wanted to add my voice to the many that saw it, loved how Ms. Rossi was pretty much digging her own grave.

I also emailed AC360 with a quick note of thanks, and asked for more programming of the same.

As far as Browne being a tax exempt organization, shouldn't that be public record, and pretty easy to find out?

 

[CFLarsen]

I've been a skeptic for a long time. Skeptic, meaning one who has doubt in at least one area. So we're all skeptics, because we're all skeptical of something.

Completely ignoring that skepticism as it is used here is scientific skepticism. You are not a skeptic, Sylvia is not a skeptic. Both of you lie, cheat, manipulate, and commit fraud to appear skeptical.

But with the popping up of skeptical clubs in the organized skeptical movement, these clubs apparently want "skeptic" to mean to disbelieve exactly what they disbelieve.

You know that is a lie.

I've noticed that a lot of these new skeptics apparently do not realize that people willingly pay psychics for their services, and are fully aware that nothing is guaranteed. If they believe fraud is happenning on a massive scale, they should contact the proper authorities instead of make webpages and appear on shows, which does absolutely nothing to investigate actual fraud.

You just put yourself in the camp of those who defend psychics' right to scam people. You are even worse than the psychics.

Many critics of the new skepticism consider challenges by skeptical clubs interesting and entertaining, but ultimately nothing more than a mix of marketing, bullying, and a waste of time since it is not going through the regular channels of science.

You leave out that it isn't due to the skeptics, but to the claimants.

Moreover, even if someone did win a challenge, it wouldn't say anything about if the skill was real, since the people doing the test could have been tricked, the person could have won by chance, and a single success doesn't make science.

Nobody is saying otherwise.

Also, the skill would no longer be paranormal, it would be normal, and the rules for a paranormal challenge would no longer apply.

You are directly accusing Randi of not paying up, should someone pass.

We also are apparently not privy to having the statistics from such tests from skeptical clubs made easily accessible for scientific study; that is problematic.

Another lie. You are perfectly aware that you do have statistics from such tests here. No fewer than 149 of them. You also know that everything is available to you in Florida.

The idea of a lure of money truly not interesting people cannot penetrate their skulls either.

Yet, you leave out the many millions of dollars people like Sylvia rake in each year.

I've also noticed that many tend to misunderstand the roles of hosts like Larry King, Montel, etc. Their job is to host and converse, to entertain, not to take sides. Therefore, one has to wonder why they get angry with the hosts.

Montel doesn't take sides?? What an incredibly ignorant thing to say!!

I hope your fine program continues to invite people from both camps on. In the future, however, when the issue of testing claims comes up, I'd try to find scientists who have track records of being impartial and non-emotional.

Ignoring that it is Sylvia who doesn't want to be tested.

T'ai, if you want to appear as someone impartial, unbiased and scientific, lying is not a good way to do it.

 

[RSLancastr]

I, agree that it's the people where seeds of critical thinking can take root that are the main targets for Randi. But wouldn't it be cool, if just once...a true believer (in anything) came forth and said--I was wrong; I was fooling myself!

Nearly every day I hear from people who tell me that they were believers in Browne's nonsense until they read the StopSylviaBrowne web site.

 

[Drudgewire]

Ok, Silvia's business manager, I'll play:

Leviticus 19:26-28
'Do not practice divination or sorcery.

Leviticus 19:31
'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.

Leviticus 20:27
27 " 'A man or woman who is a medium or spiritist among you must be put to death. You are to stone them; their blood will be on their own heads.'

Micah 3:7
7 The seers will be ashamed and the diviners disgraced. They will all cover their faces because there is no answer from God."

Doesn't seem like god is that thrilled with Silvia's line of work.

God is a skeptic.

 

[Loss Leader]

Here's the email I sent. Enjoy.

We can only be thankful that your bias makes your email almost impossible for someone who hasn't followed your dispute with JREF to comprehend.

 

[JPK]

Good afternoon.

So Sylvia’s manager is claiming that Sylvia Browne makes no money using her psychic abilities because she considers her fees to be donations to the church that she leads. I haven’t checked her website, but does she specifically state that this is how the money she collect will be used? Isn’t this something that the IRS would be interested in? Perhaps this is the kind of information that will be made public durring the New Challenge.
I find it interesting that she is playing up the spiritualist role and downplaying the psychic stuff now. John Edward has started heading this way as well. I haven’t read “The Magic of Uri Geller” in a while, but wasn’t this a concern Randi’s in regards to Geller? That he was going to start a church
Time to re-read that book.
[FONT=&quot] JPK.[/FONT]

 

[Jesus Baby Daddy]

There is just so much to say, and I don't know where to start.. so excuse my babbling.
That was a great show.
I've only seen Anderson Cooper once or twice before this last week. But I think what he is doing is fantastic. I can't tell you the last time I saw somebody in the popular media stick up for Randi. (Johnny Carson maybe.. well, he's "media-ish" haha)
Usually I think I'd be upset that Randi didn't speak more but this lady was digging herself into a hole so quick, a gopher couldn't keep up. I actually think Randi was enjoying watching her dig herself deeper and deeper.
I laughed out loud and yelled "BAM!" when AC said his "that's high school debate tactics" line to Sylvia's attack "dog". (yes, the word "dog" applies in many ways here ... Yes, I went there)
I wrote to AC360 for the second time in a week, I hope that all of you do this.

Oh.. and RSLancastr keep up the great work. You are turning into a huge celebrity, I have found myself name dropping and saying "I post on the same forum as that guy" a couple of times recently.

 

[mpeacock]

TAX DODGE.

Does anyone know whether Browne claims tax-exempt status for her organization?

The same warning bells went off for me as well. What with her church and prior securities fraud conviction, it's not much of a stretch to imagine that she might have some special tax status.

All I've been able to find out so far is that she has at least one corporation (Sylvia Brown Corporation) as well as the "church" of Novus Spiritus. Both are registered in California, but I have yet to find a way to search the public records for their tax status. Anyone else have this info?

 

[Zygar]

It could have gone better, but Syvlia's Business Manager was her own worst enemy.

 

[Moochie]

As a rebuttal (by SB's camp) of the earlier AC360 piece on the Hornbeck case, I'd have to say it was a dismal failure.

Mr. Randi acquitted himself well, and Cooper seemed on the ball for the most part. SB needs a better PR person.

M.

ETA: Thanks again, Lisa!