Merged Psychology of Conspiracy Theoriests

Very much so. Another central tenet of conspiracism is that it's most often based only on what the conspiracy theorist knows at the time. Often times, legitimate expertise is specifically eschewed as being tainted by mainstream thought. But conspiracy theories definitely depend very heavily on the reader's ignorance, if not the author's as well.

Paradoxically the conspiracy theorist will sometimes purport to educate the reader, and thus the reader comes away believing he has been given additional information the rest of the public supposedly doesn't have. But at best the reader has been spoon-fed a carefully chosen smattering of relevant facts (or more typically, rumor masquerading as fact) which he then doesn't question.

But one of the big reasons conspiracy theories don't go very far is not because the public is somehow ideologically predisposed against them, but because they simply can't stand up to any real-world scrutiny of their facts and reasoning.

Jay, that is specifically the problem in the JFK case. If you think you are Alice in Wonderland because apropos of nothing you think your mind can accurately assess ballistic impact effects on a human head and body, well the problem is, indeed, ego.
 
In terms of reasoning in specialized fields, the conspiracist usually believes his common sense provides sufficient expertise, supplemented with web searches that produce snippets of marginally relevant erudition. When his incompetence in the field is demonstrated, there is dissonance between his desire to maintain the construct in which he is an expert and the growing realization that he is beyond his ken. But as far as the construct holds for him, I think it would appear from the outside to be narcissism.

As a tangent for lurkers: Conspiracy Theories: Causes and Cures, Cass Sunstein and Adrian Vermeule, 2009.

And related: Conspiracy Theories, same authors, earlier work, appeared to be aimed at government staff members.

I don't feel the need to comment on Jay's conclusion about narcissism because there's nothing to add there; Jay handles it quite well. Rather, I wanted to point to a scholarly work that many of us here have seen before but some lurkers (presuming there are any since the move from JREF) may not have. Cass and Sunstein wrote on the method of knowledge generation by conspiracy theorists (really, conspiracy fantasists). They key in on CT'ers "crippled epistemology" i.e. their practice of limiting their knowledge sources to those sympathetic to their worldview, and fully completing the circle by using that as validation of those worldviews.

Again, this is only tangential to Jay's post. But it's well worth reading because it shows that what Jay said about "... dissonance between his desire to maintain the construct in which he is an expert and the growing realization that he is beyond his ken..." is not only true, it's not undone by rationality, it's self-reinforced by their methods of knowledge gathering and validation and self-protected against re-examination brought on by contradictions and refutations in other, non-conspiratorial knowledge sources. Or in short, it's often not really affected by fact because they've drawn the conclusion that the sources they're relying on are more valid and trustable than the sources they don't pay attention to. And this is amply demonstrated in just about any thread in this subforum.

Anyway, tangent for additional background knowledge. Honestly, it's worth reading.
 
Intelligent, skeptical people don't believe that. People can question the conventional narrative, question the individual alternative narratives, and come away believing that the conventional narrative still holds the most water of all of them.

Exactly this. Not to toot my own horn (okay, fine I'm tootling ;):p...), but as I noted back in 2008, real questioning is aimed at illuminating the situation, not steering towards a predetermined conclusion.

... And that illuminates a bigger point (sorry to run off on a tangent like this): Real criticism illuminates. False criticism stated with an agenda in mind - in the case of 9/11 Trutherism, the impugnment of the US Government - obsfucates. How many people are still stuck on the notion of steel having to have melted for the towers to collapse? How many people can be led into thinking incorrectly of the military response that day because some conspiracy peddler asked "Why did the planes fly around for 40 minutes without being intercepted"? It's necessary to retail the first narrative in order to build the case for thermite, and the second for the stand down, but it doesn't truly shed light on what really happened that day. Inquiries like Astaneh-Asl's - even if the engineering world ends up falsifying the charges - lead to better understanding of the engineering issues involved. Look at the true, genuinely considered criticisms that have occurred: Arup, Edinburg, Quintiere's statements for example... all those may pose more questions, and in regards to the fireproofing in those specific examples actually contradict NIST's model, but they ultimately build a path towards further illumination. What about conspiracy fantasies does the same thing?

A movie critic - was it the late Gene Siskel? I forget... - once said that the real difference between independent and mainstream movies wasn't the production company, the funding, the director, or anything like that. It was whether the storyline confirmed or challenged the dominant view of whatever subject matter the film was covering. A most independent source of funding for a film with a most un-Hollywood director would not result in an independent film if the storyline confirmed society's views on the subject, whereas the most commercial studio using the most inside-Hollywood director could make an independent film if they chose to challenge how the audience normally looked upon a topic. While incomplete, the definition is useful in separating what truly chooses to exist outside the zeitgeist, and what chooses to flow with it. This framework is very much applicable to conspiracy fantasists and the entire subject of 9/11. Who really challenges existing thought? And who simply chooses to follow the current of the particular zeitgeist? When Astaneh-Asl, for example, questions the view of the towers being properly constructed, he may be doing so within the rigid rules of engineering, and he is doing so from well inside the engineering community, but he's very much offering an illuminating challenge to the dominant mode of thought regarding the towers. Were they in fact truly well built? We're the builders' "10 unusual elements" truly bad practices? Regardless of code, was the choices made in the design of the towers truly bad ones to make? Against those questions, you have the dominant NIST model which exonerates the design. Where lies the truth? Who knows, but the interplay between the positions will shed light on that question.

Now, consider the conspiratorial claims: Thermite. Stand down. Pull it. Claims like these and others pose as though they stand against the dominant paradigm, but do they really? Do such claims that tap into the common feelings of powerlessness in the face of such a large government as the United States's one really challege orthodox thinking? Does tapping into the common mistrust of government really stand as independent thought? Does any of the conspiratorial narrative truly achieve any real state of rebellion? Or are they mere confirmations of the lazier parts of the zeitgeist that says this monster in Washington is all-powerful and all-capable, and willing to do whatever it takes for power/money/influence/forward the "NWO"/etc.? And on top of that, what do conspiratorial claims illuminate? Is it anything original? Does it truly generate genuine scholarship, and really illuminate new considerations inside well known fields? Or is it yet another "confirmation" of government's willingness to act against society, as the zeitgeist says?

In the end, the disappointment I feel towards the conspiracy addicts is not merely in their lack of discriminating thought (although that is certainly a component of it), nor in their abuse of freedom of speech (many "abuse" this right). It is that the energy spent on the faulty narrative ultimately does not challenge or change anything. What are all these arguments we have here, other than bricks in the ediface of the conventional? Even when Christophera, Balsamo in his various sock puppets, Swing Dangler, RedIbis, etc. put forth superficially challenging arguments, what puzzle are they completing other than the conspiratorial one that ultimately says "Government bad"? For all the poses of original thought, what they put forth is every bit as conventional as the arguments we muster; they simply have the flaw of being contextually or outright factually wrong as well. They don't plow new ground; they only tred in the tracks of previous paranoids. And they do nothing to get people to look at anything in any new way. Even those who consider 9/11 an "Inside Job" end up painting a picture no different from that painted by those who looked askance at government for Ruby Ridge, the JFK assasination, Waco, the Oklahoma City Bombings... calling government an antagonist, a contravida, is as old as the history of formal governments, and every bit as established. So what do they accomplish, other than forward a conventional narrative disguised as rebellion?

Ultimately, the problem in the so-called truth movement is that they neither illuminate, nor challenge. Much energy is wasted to convey a message that is ultimately flawed, and no true enlightenment comes of it. Whereas looking at the critiques of Quintiere, Astaneh-Asl, or other genuine critics really gets you thinking outside the mainstream. They challenge conventional wisdom: Was NIST's presumptions regarding the fireproofing truly erroneous, therefore demonstrating that the fireproofing is actually irrelevant in these situations? Were the building practices truly deviated from? Those of us outside the engineering community cannot definitively answer those because we don't know; the answers would be genuinely original scholarship. And even inside the community, I'd bet that the questions stimulates thinking, even if it does not ultimately result in change. But the point is that the rebels who are creating genuinely original thought are not the ones proclaiming "Inside Job" or finding ways to spin Steven Jones's latest findings. They're in fact very much a part of the establishment they seek to criticize.

I hate to repeat this, but unfortunately it bears repeating because of the pose conspiracy peddlers take: They are not original thinkers. They do not have an inside, special, or more knowledgeable track on what's really happening. Instead, they're hewing to a most conventional, and dare I say worn out line about social mythology concerning government. They don't illuminate; they smoke and mirror their way towards a conspiratorial narrative. And that's bad enough, but to go further and state that people who don't share their worldview are not even bothering to question "The Official Story" is just lunacy at it's highest.
 
Cass and Sunstein wrote on the method of knowledge generation by conspiracy theorists (really, conspiracy fantasists). They key in on CT'ers "crippled epistemology" i.e. their practice of limiting their knowledge sources to those sympathetic to their worldview, and fully completing the circle by using that as validation of those worldviews.

This addresses what I just wrote above. Because the conspiracist engages in some type of knowledge-gathering exercise (albeit by surveying sources sympathetic to his desired belief) he believes he has an advantage over his critics, whom he assumes have done no research and simply hold the conventional view by default. The conspiracist reads a book or consults a web site endorsing his belief and purporting a semblance of scholarly rigor behind it, and automatically assumes not only that his belief is substantiated in the proper way but also that it is more substantiated than his critics' beliefs.

It often takes far too long for the conspiracist to realize not only that his critics are well-informed, but likely better informed not only about the conspiracy theory but also about the general body of science and knowledge that pertain to the question. As your authors note, the circularity of belief reinforcement in the "broken epistemology" of the conspiracy theory world is as impregnable as any other circularity. Circular reasoning and belief systems are insidiously persuasive even among those otherwise prone to critical thinking.

...they've drawn the conclusion that the sources they're relying on are more valid and trustable than the sources they don't pay attention to. And this is amply demonstrated in just about any thread in this subforum.

As I wrote some time earlier, the major pivot in most conspiracy-related debates occurs when the conspiracy theorist stops considering facts and knowledge and converts the discussion into, "Whom are you going to trust?"

And indeed that manifests itself into variations on the points your authors raise. The critic's knowledge is presumed to be merely propositional statements instilled by a trusted authority, not independently researched or verified. The critic's expert knowledge, if any, is deflected to one side or the other. On the one side, it is asserted to be the product of mainstream education which necessarily includes subtle indoctrination against belief in "maverick" sources knowledge in order to preserve the oligarchy of academia. On the other side, it is asserted that the expert is simply part of the conspiracy and is "shilling" for the powers that be. In extreme examples, expertise itself is uniformly eschewed as being less valuable than "common sense" -- the expert is simply confused by the complexity of his own expertise and thereby unable to see "clear" truths to the contrary.
 
Exactly this. Not to toot my own horn (okay, fine I'm tootling ;):p...), but as I noted back in 2008, real questioning is aimed at illuminating the situation, not steering towards a predetermined conclusion.

​

I hate to repeat this, but unfortunately it bears repeating because of the pose conspiracy peddlers take: They are not original thinkers. They do not have an inside, special, or more knowledgeable track on what's really happening. Instead, they're hewing to a most conventional, and dare I say worn out line about social mythology concerning government. They don't illuminate; they smoke and mirror their way towards a conspiratorial narrative. And that's bad enough, but to go further and state that people who don't share their worldview are not even bothering to question "The Official Story" is just lunacy at it's highest.

It's all in how they frame their worldview:

How government phobics view the government.

[qimg]http://files.air-attack.com/MIL/_INSTAL/norad/war-room.jpg[/qimg]

How most people view the government:

[qimg]http://www-static.weddingbee.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/29/dmv-fee.jpg[/qimg]
 
It often takes far too long for the conspiracist to realize not only that his critics are well-informed, but likely better informed not only about the conspiracy theory but also about the general body of science and knowledge that pertain to the question.

It seems to me, and I commented on this here a few years back, that conspiracy theorists like to see the world in terms of two populations: those who, through ignorance or apathy, have never questioned conventional narratives, and those who have questioned them and reject them; but that in reality there is a third population, those who have critically examined conventional narratives and accepted those that are well supported by evidence. Moving from the first to the second group and from the first to the third are both fairly common; second to third less so; but third to second is virtually unknown. That wouldn't be the case if conspiracies were as ubiquitous as their theorists would have us believe.

Dave
 
[C]onspiracy theorists like to see the world in terms of two populations: those who, through ignorance or apathy, have never questioned conventional narratives, and those who have questioned them and reject them; but that in reality there is a third population, those who have critically examined conventional narratives and accepted those that are well supported by evidence.

Conspiracism as an ego-reinforcement mechanism naturally could not tolerate the proposition that there can be informed objection to a conspiracy theory. The conspiracy theorists regard their beliefs as the intelligent man's interpretation of events. If it should somehow not be that, it loses its psychological value.

So intricate do the constructs become in some cases that a completely parallel pseudo-scholarship program evolves within each conspiracy genre. These programs mimic in some cases the trappings of academia or other legitimate forms of investigation, and serve to reinforce the illusion that conspiracism is a scholarly, intellectual pursuit. In some cases this is simply a backlash to the general inability of conspiracy authors to attract the attention of real scholars and experts.

Moving from the first to the second group and from the first to the third are both fairly common; second to third less so; but third to second is virtually unknown.

As turingtest wrote today in the JFK thread, it's because you can't unsee the evidence. I agree with him. Conspiracy authorship is an exercise in spoon-feeding the reader the right kinds and amount of information to make the predetermined conclusion seem the most plausible. Once you see a broader picture of the evidence, it's first difficult to forgive the conspiracy authors from lying to you, and second, hard to artificially re-narrow your vision.

That wouldn't be the case if conspiracies were as ubiquitous as their theorists would have us believe.

That remains an important difference between conspiracies and conspiracy theories. The real conspiracies acquire a body of legitimate evidence, usually conclusively so. Conspiracy theories simply wallow forever in "questions."
 
It's all in how they frame their worldview:

What is funny is that people who have actually worked in the crisis rooms in the Pentagon and White House laugh at the way they are protrayed in the movies.
As one retired general said, his son's apartment has a more sophisticated video system then what they have in the Pentagon.....
 
What is funny is that people who have actually worked in the crisis rooms in the Pentagon and White House laugh at the way they are protrayed in the movies.
As one retired general said, his son's apartment has a more sophisticated video system then what they have in the Pentagon.....

I'm one of them. I've worked shifts before in the PACOM JOC.
 
I'm one of them. I've worked shifts before in the PACOM JOC.

But see, that's not the real operations center. All the conspiracy-related stuff is handled at a completely different even-more-top-secret place. If you claim you've seen it or been there, then there's another place that's even secreter.

The echelon of power that implements the conspiracy theories is always presumed to be at least one level higher than any of the critics knows about.
 
But see, that's not the real operations center. All the conspiracy-related stuff is handled at a completely different even-more-top-secret place. If you claim you've seen it or been there, then there's another place that's even secreter.

The echelon of power that implements the conspiracy theories is always presumed to be at least one level higher than any of the critics knows about.

I've been in the secreter place too! It's behind the display wall, and we keep the locker, fridge and exercise bike in there.:D
 
But see, that's not the real operations center. All the conspiracy-related stuff is handled at a completely different even-more-top-secret place. If you claim you've seen it or been there, then there's another place that's even secreter.

The echelon of power that implements the conspiracy theories is always presumed to be at least one level higher than any of the critics knows about.

"more secreter" LOL. Eventually we will find some evil overlord with a white longhair cat, according to CT logic.
 
... How many Americans do you think that are alive right now that are walking around completely ignorant to much ...
A fringe few. Some examples; those who can't figure out Bigfoot is BS, 911 truth is lies, those who believe the CTs bout JFK, and those making up BS to support ancient aliens.

Ironically, you are in the right track, psychology of conspiracy theorists is based on self inflicted ignorance.
 
It seems to me, and I commented on this here a few years back, that conspiracy theorists like to see the world in terms of two populations: those who, through ignorance or apathy, have never questioned conventional narratives, and those who have questioned them and reject them; but that in reality there is a third population, those who have critically examined conventional narratives and accepted those that are well supported by evidence.

Also beyond their scope is a fourth population: Those who question the establishment and their narratives, but manage to do so without believing in hokey conspiracy theories. That one video where Noam Chomsky tells of a truther at one of his events comes to mind. Sometimes I think their enthusiasm and energy would be better spend supporting these kinds of intellectuals and their teachings.
 
Also beyond their scope is a fourth population: Those who question the establishment and their narratives, but manage to do so without believing in hokey conspiracy theories. That one video where Noam Chomsky tells of a truther at one of his events comes to mind. Sometimes I think their enthusiasm and energy would be better spend supporting these kinds of intellectuals and their teachings.

Chomsly may be a class or five better than the truly nutty philosophers of CT, but he has his own conspiratoid way of thinking, of making lots of things fit his favorite patterns that really shouldn't.

Not too long before 9/11, perhaps as late as 2000, I discovered Chomsky for me, and around the same time Christopher Hitchens. Both critical commentators on the left, both very sharp brains and great with words.
Then came 9/11
And the two landed on opposite sides of policy recommendations. Because each had his own set of blinders - and I ended up following neither (on that subject - remained a Hitchens fan till is death on many other issues). Chomsky bored me eventually. No matter what happens - evil Washington! *yawn*

I guess it's best to remain critical towards everybody - every school, every authority, and decide whom to follow on a case by case schedule, based on merit.
 
Yo yo yo what up what up guys!
I'll see what you guys have to say!

First off, I am too dumb with the science to explain everything or to debunk things nor do I have the time nor the effort to do so. Also, whenever I am confronted with conspiracy theories, my sense of certainty goes away, which makes me doubt what I know and I hate that. I am totally fine with the uncertainties of life and doubt but when it comes to things like pseudoscience/conspiracy theories/mysticism and other weird ****, it makes me feel uncomfortable as the implications of the conspiracy theory, if true, could be immense and frightening. First off, I want to ask you guys this. What do you think of the psychology of these conspiracy theorists? First I saw them as unreliable, crazy crackpots but then the more I looked into them, since I was ignorant of the facts, I thought that they would be even more careful and meticulous of their fact checking than other people because, the conspiracy theory comes after the facts, after joining things together. I used to think that the facts that they would write are completely b/s and incompetent and or made up but more often than not, it was true what they are saying. Why would they have an incentive to lie? Their research is well done in my opinion. Of course, there are websites that promote nonsense and b/s such as collective-evolution and such but as you know, there is no motivation for conspiracy theorists to lie about their facts+they are very anal with their fact checking as they have a higher threshold of reputation to hold. But when I do look at the facts, it's surprising because I would also have came to such a conclusion of the conspiracy theorists. For example, the obvious conclusion that I came across to the Malaysian Airlines case was, Aliens. If you weigh up all the facts, of course, it would seem like a plausible conclusion. This is to illustrate a point. However, I guess you could make all sorts of theories with all the facts you have given to you and you may pick and choose which facts to use of things that happened that day (9/11) and link it to your theory.


(Why are people interested in boring conspiracy theories? Most popular ones are very boring, such as moon landing or JFK. I mean, even if true or false? So what? Who cares? Wouldn't something much more grandiose and macro such as UFOs and the NWO be much more entertaining and perplexing?)

For me, no.

I think what was appealing about these conspiracies (the Apollo hoax in particular) was that you could actually find an answer if you investigated enough. I didn't have a lot of knowledge on the subjects, and I didn't want to simply refer to debunking sites when responding to conspiracists. This involved me having to research deeper. I found that field experts are very willing to impart information (and their time) if approached correctly - which made for some really interesting email correspondence. I stopped eventually due to the time spent on researching and responding, only for the goals to be continually shifted when debating. Not to mention the name calling.

The problem with conspiracies related to UFOs etc - it seems difficult to be able get your hands on any real data or information to have a worthwhile discussion about it.

In retrospect, I feel I owe the 9/11 and Apollo conspiracists a certain amount of debt - in small part at least - as I think this interest was a catalyst that recently propelled me into undergraduate study.

Regarding the psychology of conspiracists: when I was younger I did buy into some conspiracies, having thought I'd discovered something new. This was due to lack of education on my part, unawareness of the rigors of - and lack of respect for - academia. Which is probably not that uncommon.
 

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