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Psychic Detectives are real

Usually I just lurk but the "LOL CHECKMATE" line caught my attention. Who writes like that? Nobody who takes his point of view seriously, that's for sure.

Therefore I'd officially like to go out on a limb and declare that this guy (girl?) MUST be SilivaRox trying to pull another fast one on us all. At the very least he's a long lost sibling or newly invented sockpuppet.

(Along the same lines I find it hard to believe that anybody who even pretends to understand concepts like relativity or quantum physics could repeatedly mistake "their" for there, "alot" for a lot and so on. Conclusion? More than likely these are carefully calculated errors specifically designed to frustrate even the English geek skeptics here. Hi SR!)

While the current discussion is definitely popcorn-worthy this thread sure could use a few more kittens.

Also, OP should get a job at Steorn. That one just seems to fit, somehow.

/back to lurking
 
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ChristineR said:
Watch Kathy Kupka's face as Rhea mocks her. Watch her as she begs Sylvia Browne for help. Forget about us idiots who sit here fat and pretty and try to get through to you on a stupid message board.

That's the reality of psychic detectives. That woman sobbing in frustration and agony and loneliness. Oh, you're a clever troll, keeping us naive silly do-gooders going for pages and pages. Why look at all the smart people squirm!

F*** that. Watch Kathy Kupka squirm. That's advanced power tripping. That's advanced mind-****ing. Go on, you can do it. Hell, maybe someday you can get good enough so that you can recite these quantum mechanics non-sequitors to people like Kathy Kupka who are actually ****ed-up enough to believe it.

That's what motivates people like Randi and Bidlack to create this board and this foundation. That's why people here get all excited and want to actually explain Quantum physics to you. Boy, are they dumb! But you should see how dumb people get when someone rapes and murders their kid! Keep working on your spiel polomontana, and maybe you'll be able to see it first hand.

(To the rest of you posters--My apologies, I really don't go around using vulgarity most of the time. I'm just sick of this attention whore. He/she can go troll a cooking forum. Long live Randi. The man already has a star in heaven, and may he live longer than any hollow made-up god.)
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I've argued this many times before, too. That's exactly what it is: Power-tripping. Mind-f**king.

Think about Sylvia Browne. She could be sitting at home, feet up, with a nice cuppa joe, making $1400-1500 an hour just cold reading, throwing out guesses. Then add what she rakes in from her books, appearances, etc. Her "spirit tours" to far away places, like Greece and Egypt, also cost money, but nowhere like what she can rake in, sitting by the phone.

With psychics like Sylvia Browne and Kathlyn Rhea, it isn't the money. It's the power.
 
Liken said:
...
(Along the same lines I find it hard to believe that anybody who even pretends to understand concepts like relativity or quantum physics could repeatedly mistake "their" for there, "alot" for a lot and so on. Conclusion? More than likely these are carefully calculated errors specifically designed to frustrate even the English geek skeptics here. Hi SR!)
...
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You forgot the your/you're to/too its/it's "blunders" also. I thought it seemed very calculated and looked suspicious to me as well.
 
polomontana,

In the clip in ChristineR's post, you will hear the following statement from Mark Klass:

"Kathlyn Rhea went on a cowboy television programme and took credit for the recovery my child."
Mark Klass.
Click to expand...

Regardless of what you think of Rhea's psychic abilities: What do you think of Rhea taking credit for recovering Polly Klass, when that is demonstrably false?

Also, from the clip:
STOSSEL: How many bodies have you found?

RHEA: Oh, sometimes there's 3 or 4 a week.
Click to expand...

It's clear that finding a missing body is child's play for Rhea. She can do it, just like that.

Now, the United States is a pretty big country, and there sure are a lot of murders. But shouldn't we expect that a success rate like that would register somewhere in the police records? Shouldn't we expect that, with a success rate like that, Rhea would openly and frequently be consulted by not just the police, but also the families of the many missing persons in the United States, and the rest of the world? The press - always eager to find really truly amazing stories - haven't picked up on this?

What the hell is going on here? Is there a world-wide conspiracy to suppress this? That can't be it, because nobody has tried to silence Rhea when she makes her claims - quite contrary.

If she can find bodies at that rate (I doubt even the NYPD can work that fast), why isn't she employed full-time finding missing bodies - regardless of the cost?

What do you think of this, polomontana?
 
CFLarsen said:
I've argued this many times before, too. That's exactly what it is: Power-tripping. Mind-f**king.

Think about Sylvia Browne. She could be sitting at home, feet up, with a nice cuppa joe, making $1400-1500 an hour just cold reading, throwing out guesses. Then add what she rakes in from her books, appearances, etc. Her "spirit tours" to far away places, like Greece and Egypt, also cost money, but nowhere like what she can rake in, sitting by the phone.

With psychics like Sylvia Browne and Kathlyn Rhea, it isn't the money. It's the power.
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That's what makes them evil. It is one thing to fool the mental midgets on the Internet into thinking that you have magical powers. It is quite another to latch onto the misery of grieving families to satisfy some sick emptiness inside you.
 
Rodney said:
Your link fails to show that, but it does show Joe Nickell's dishonesty in misrepresenting himself to Jordan. Jordan may not always be accurate, but police think he seems to have done pretty well in this case:

Mike Mucci, who was a Chemung County Sheriff's Department investigator, and Charles "Corky" Patterson, a sergeant in the Elmira Police Department Detective Bureau, had been working the case as a team since November 1989.

Together, they conducted more than 350 interviews, Mucci said recently. They gathered a good deal of evidence against the suspects: DNA, bite marks and witness accounts. But they couldn't connect Cuddy, who was not originally from Elmira, with Moore, a native of the city.

Then, for some reason they can't really explain, the investigators called Jordan and asked if he'd look over the case. It was a fairly bold move at the time — perhaps the first time a psychic had been called in on a case in Chemung County, Mucci said.

"We were well on our way, and we just decided to go down there just as a why-not type of thing, as another tool," Mucci said.

"We had the case pretty much put together," Patterson said. "But there were some things still missing, and we were still not sure about some things."

Jordan told them, for example, that the man who did the killing had a homemade tattoo on his left shoulder. It was a name, Jordan said, but he could not read it.

Of those on the case, only Patterson had that information. Having interviewed Cuddy in prison, he knew Cuddy had a tattoo on his left shoulder.

"It was a woman's name," Patterson said, "but it was blurry. You couldn't read it."

"He was absolutely astounding," said Patterson, who is retired. "Everything he said was right on the money."

Cuddy went to trial first and was convicted of second-degree murder and first-degree burglary. Moore's first trial ended in a hung jury on the murder charge. A short time later, in a second trial, he, too, was convicted. Both are still in prison.
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Given the public's appetite for all things woo, it really isn't surprising that an enterprising production company should seek to capitalize on that appetite (the cynical, jaded bastards that they are). As long as there are Rodneys and Polomyopics around, they cannot but succeed.

It's almost a win-win-win-win situation. The production company profits by selling this gumpf to a gullible public; Jordan profits from the bump his fading "career" will get; some superannuated cops will recapture their glory days (and probably receive a nice little annuity to see them through); and the moronic public who gobble this rubbish up will feel well nourished -- if a diet totally lacking in any nutrients can be said to nourish.

Oh how one wishes for a deity who could bitch-slap some sense into these people...

M.
 
Always seems to be the retired officers who don't have to go back and explain to the detectives who actually solved the case why he's not giving the credit to them that wind up on these shows.

Just once I'd like to see a chief of police on one of them. Wonder why that never happens.
 
Just what you've been waiting for! An actual case where the use of a psychic lead to an arrest! Although, my hunch is that the woo crew won't exactly trumpet this one. It is a great way to take advantage of the belief in police psychics, though.

torontosun.com/News/TorontoAndGTA/2007/07/25/4366081-sun.html

"The best friend of a missing Richmond Hill bookkeeper volunteered to become a police agent and pretended to enlist the aid of a psychic to snare a Toronto cop suspected in the death of his mistress, a jury heard yesterday.

Amare, ... had her phone conversations with Wills recorded by police and said to him in May that she found an "amazing psychic" named "Yousef" to help locate Mariani

The day that "Yousef" -- actually an undercover London cop -- was scheduled to meet Wills on June 7, 2002, the accused surrendered to York police"
 
Man,

I will definately direct people hear to read these posts as an example of dogmatic skepticism. Many of you guys are in total denial because of your pre-existing belief systems.

Somehow the skeptic knows more than the cops that investigated the cases or the cops are stupid or lying LOL. Cops are trained to skeptical not stupid. If a psychic gives them information that helps solve there case then their not gona let a belief system stand in the way.

Many of the skeptics here are trapped in a dillusional world of heresay where logic doesn't exist. In this world a skeptics 3rd party heresay is given more weight than police officers who were involved in the cases. I'm sure people will not see how illogical that sounds because the dogmatic about their skepticism. It's like if a Dr. does an operation and then after the operation the skeptic tries to tell the doctor he performed the wrong operation even though the patient was cured. The skeptic has nothing but there opinion but their opinion when it comes to things that challenge their belief system is given more weight than the people who were actually involved. PURE NONSENSE.

People mentioned Kay Rhea getting paid. Do you realize we live in a free market society? Should Doctors, lawyers, police officers and others not get paid? That's just silly to say. Do you get paid when you do work?

Also people talked about Mark Klass and Kathy Kupka on the you tube video. The only way that you can make a real judgement is if you have people on the show that were helped by Kay Rhea. Of course this show was not intended to show both sides. On the show Psychic Detective you have skeptical police officers that don't really want to meet with the psychic but they do so per the families request. When they meet with the psychic everything changes when the psychic gives them information that will help solve the crime that their investigating. See police want to solve the crime not try and protect a pre-existing belief system.

Psychics are not going to be correct 100% of the time. That's because psychic ability is a natural occorence and subject to human error. This is another fallacy in the skeptics argument. The skeptic has to show me first that the supernatural exists. I never claimed that psychic ability was the product of the supernatural. To claim that psychic ability is in the realm of the supernatural and has to be correct 100% of the time, the skeptic has to show me that the supernatural exists. I never made any claim about psychic ability being supernatural. If you were to go back in time 2,000 years and clone a sheep that would be considered a supernatural event by the people of that time period. Psychic ability occurs naturally and I know most skeptics want to keep it in the realm of the supernatural this way they can dismiss out of hand without any critical thinking. Sorry, I don't make that claim.

The skeptic cannot debate psychic ability as occuring naturally because their belief system will not allow them to consider the possibility. To them psychic ability has to be outside of nature so they can just dismiss it. This is a freethinker?
 
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polomontana said:
Man,

I will definately direct people hear to read these posts as an example of dogmatic skepticism. Many of you guys are in total denial because of your pre-existing belief systems.
Click to expand...
You mean "reality?"

Somehow the skeptic knows more than the cops that investigated the cases or the cops are stupid or lying LOL. Cops are trained to skeptical not stupid. If a psychic gives them information that helps solve there case then their not gona let a believe system stand in the way.
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Again, this could be easily fixed if there was a single case where there's documentation from the police, the D.A., or a a judge that they provided information that would never have been uncovered without them.

Instead the shows rely on one retired cop... with no mention of why he or she is no longer with the department (it's especially fun to speculate what caused him to leave when the cop is under 50). Therefore, our pre-existing belief system is that there aren't any cases anywhere that have been officially filed under "solved by a psychic." And that isn't a belief... it's a fact.
 
polomontana said:
Man,

I will definately direct people hear to read these posts as an example of dogmatic skepticism. Many of you guys are in total denial because of your pre-existing belief systems.

Somehow the skeptic knows more than the cops that investigated the cases or the cops are stupid or lying LOL. Cops are trained to skeptical not stupid. If a psychic gives them information that helps solve there case then their not gona let a belief system stand in the way.

Many of the skeptics here are trapped in a dillusional world of heresay where logic doesn't exist. In this world a skeptics 3rd party heresay is given more weight than police officers who were involved in the cases. I'm sure people will not see how illogical that sounds because the dogmatic about their skepticism. It's like if a Dr. does an operation and then after the operation the skeptic tries to tell the doctor he performed the wrong operation even though the patient was cured. The skeptic has nothing but there opinion but their opinion when it comes to things that challenge their belief system is given more weight than the people who were actually involved. PURE NONSENSE.

People mentioned Kay Rhea getting paid. Do you realize we live in a free market society? Should Doctors, lawyers, police officers and others not get paid? That's just silly to say. Do you get paid when you do work?

Also people talked about Mark Klass and Kathy Kupka on the you tube video. The only way that you can make a real judgement is if you have people on the show that were helped by Kay Rhea. Of course this show was not intended to show both sides. On the show Psychic Detective you have skeptical police officers that don't really want to meet with the psychic but they do so per the families request. When they meet with the psychic everything changes when the psychic gives them information that will help solve the crime that their investigating. See police want to solve the crime not try and protect a pre-existing belief system.

Psychics are not going to be correct 100% of the time. That's because psychic ability is a natural occorence and subject to human error. This is another fallacy in the skeptics argument. The skeptic has to show me first that the supernatural exists. I never claimed that psychic ability was the product of the supernatural. To claim that psychic ability is in the realm of the supernatural and has to be correct 100% of the time, the skeptic has to show me that the supernatural exists. I never made any claim about psychic ability being supernatural. If you were to go back in time 2,000 years and clone a sheep that would be considered a supernatural event by the people of that time period. Psychic ability occurs naturally and I know most skeptics want to keep it in the realm of the supernatural this way they can dismiss out of hand without any critical thinking. Sorry, I don't make that claim.

The skeptic cannot debate psychic ability as occuring naturally because their belief system will not allow them to consider the possibility. To them psychic ability has to be outside of nature so they can just dismiss it. This is a freethinker?
Click to expand...

Regardless of what you think of Rhea's psychic abilities: What do you think of Rhea taking credit for recovering Polly Klass, when that is demonstrably false?

What do you think of Rhea's claim that she sometimes finds 3-4 bodies a week?

What do you think is the reason why Rhea - with that success rate - isn't used all the time to find missing bodies?

What about the missing press coverage? Why do you think that is?
 
Drudgewire you can't be serious with that posts.

First, psychics don't solve crimes. This is another fallacy from the skeptic. Psychic are used as an investigative tool and the information they give the officer helps the police solve the crime.

Here's an example:

A psychic will tell a detective. The guy who killed the victim works at a garage where the victim used to get their car fixed. I'm also seeing a mustang car. The mustang care just keeps flahing in front of me.

The detective then investigates. He finds out what garage the victim went to to get their car fixed. While he's talking to the owner one of the workers walk by and gets into a mustang car. The detective then investigates that person and finds out he has a record of violence in his past. The police investigate and connect the killer to the crime.

The psychic didn't do the "leg work" or solve the crime the detective did. The psychic just helped. It's really not hard to understand if you don't allow your pre-existing belief system to get in the way.
 
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CFLarsen,

I will answer your questions if you first answer me this. What does any of those questions have to do with the cases where Kay Rhea helped? I can show you a Lawyer that was helpful in 50 cases but lost in 15 cases. Does that mean he's not a good laywer? You have to give me some revelence behind the questions.
 
polomontana said:
CFLarsen,

I will answer your questions if you first answer me this. What does any of those questions have to do with the cases where Kay Rhea helped? I can show you a Lawyer that was helpful in 50 cases but lost in 15 cases. Does that mean he's not a good laywer? You have to give me some revelence behind the questions.
Click to expand...

It has everything to do with the cases where Rhea claimed to help. E.g., she claimed to have found Polly Klass' body. Her father denies this. Also, if she claims to sometimes find 3-4 bodies a week, it has everything to do with the cases where she claimed she helped.

So:

Regardless of what you think of Rhea's psychic abilities: What do you think of Rhea taking credit for recovering Polly Klass, when that is demonstrably false?

What do you think of Rhea's claim that she sometimes finds 3-4 bodies a week?

What do you think is the reason why Rhea - with that success rate - isn't used all the time to find missing bodies?

What about the missing press coverage? Why do you think that is?

What do you think of that? Who is lying, Rhea or Klass?
 
polomontana said:
Drudgewire you can't be serious with that posts.

First, psychics don't solve crimes. This is another fallacy from the skeptic. Psychic are used as an investigative tool and the information they give the officer helps the police solve the crime.

Here's an example:

A psychic will tell a detective. The guy who killed the works at a garage where the victim used to get their car fixed. I'm also seeing a mustang car. The mustang care just keeps flahing in front of me.

The detective then investigates. He finds out what garage the victim went to to get their car fixed. While he's talking to the owner one of the workers walk by and gets into a mustang car. The detective then investigates that person and finds out he has a record of violence in his past. The police investigate and connect the killer to the crime.

The psychic didn't do the "leg work" or solve the crime the detective did. The psychic just helped. It's really not hard to understand if you don't allow your pre-existing belief system to get in the way.
Click to expand...

Fair enough, then how about a letter from any police chief to any psychic thanking them for their invaluable service and how they never would have solved the case without them?

How about a police department that has used psychics in the past and continues to use the same one whenever they have a big case because they know he's got a gift that experience has shown they benefit from?

How about ANYTHING other than word of mouth from people that aren't in law enforcement anymore and have been offered a chance to be on national television if they participate?

How about a case where their prediction fits the evidence instead of having to use all kinds of creativity to make some part of a prediction fit the evidence after the fact?

Really, take your time. I'm sure at least one of those is out there... because it would seem all of them would be present every single time one of these cases was broken open by their special powers. :rolleyes:

polomontana said:
CFLarsen,

I will answer your questions if you first answer me this....
Click to expand...

No, you won't. You never do.
 
Drudgwire,

Your truly not making any sense. I will just repost something from an Earlier post. I want you to notice she has worked with Detective Tim McFadden for over 20 years. Also the last line is from a detective who doesn't believe in psychics. He says "without using the psychic, we probably would have never solved the case."

Again, psychic ability occurs naturally and we survive death naturally. Let me just give you one example. Here's a description of a documentary featuring psychic Kay Rhea.

Hosted by actress-turned-newscaster Andrea Thompson, this cable TV documentary detailed actual stories of psychics working hand in glove with law-enforcement officials to solve tough missing persons cases. Specifically, the special focused on Kay Rhea, a lifelong psychic, and Tim McFadden, a detective with the Fresno Police Department. Having collaborated professionally for 20 years, Rhea and McFadden are credited with solving scores of grim and baffling murder mysteries -- or at the very least, are given points for locating the bodies of the murder victims.

Here's more of just one of Kay Rhea's cases:

In 1989, Rachel Lombera was murdered in her apartment in Selma, California. She was beaten to death with a boombox and a chair. The police investigated the scene, and found no evidence of forced entry. Rachel new her killer and willingly let the person inside. The police found fingerprints but were never able to match them to a suspect.
She was last scene at a local bar dancing with a man the night before her murder. A witness was able to provide the police with a composite sketch of the man. The sketch was publicised, but the leads that came into the police were all dead ends.

Rachel's family convinced the police to seek the help of a psychic. The police called psychic Kay Rhea. Kay only asked for a photograph of Rachel, nothing more. From the photograph, she was able to determine that the suspect worked in a "big factory," and was also romanticaly linked to Rachel. Kay called a sketch artist friend and was able to provide a sketch of her own.

The police were skeptical, and set the sketch aside. Twelve years pass. In 2002, the unsolved case was given to Detectives Brandon Shoemaker and Gary Gass.

While looking through the case file, the dectectives find Kay's sketch and decide to contact her. Kay remembers the case, and tells them that the suspect has left the area and is probably somewhere south, like San Diego or San Bernadino. The detectives decide to publisize Kay's sketch, and two months later they get a break in the case. They recieved a tip about a man who used to live in Selma who matches Kay's sketch. As the detectives investigate their new suspect, they discover that he worked at the same plant as Rachel, and moved to San Diego shortly after the murder. They interrogate him, and he admits to the crime.

Kay Rhea also said he killed her because she was about to spill the beans. When he admitted to the crime he said he killed her because she threatened to tell his wife about their affair.

The article even contacted a skeptical police officer and this is what he said:

We tried to contact Detective Shoemaker, which was a task in itself. After being redirected several times, We finally talked to a secratary who said that he was currently serving in Iraq. However, she gave me the number of his partner, Detective Gass.

We first asked Detective Gass if he believed in psychics, and he told us he did not. We asked him about how Kay could have easily rationalized that the suspect was "angry" while killing Rachel, due to the fact that he beat her to death with a boombox and a chair. He told us that "she could have easily guessed that he was angry, it wasn't something new to us."

However, the thing that stunned him was the sketch. When we asked him about the sketch, he said, "Damn, if it wasn't just so close." He said that it was "scary". He told us that he had no idea how Kay could have gotten that information so accuretly. He went on to talk about the purpose of sketches, that they were used to "eliminate everyone else." Kay's sketch wasn't used like that, it was a direct hit. We finally asked him if they could have solved the case without Kay, and he told us that, "without using the psychic, we probably would have never solved the case."
 
CFLarsen,

I will concede you your point. Kay Rhea didn't help in the Mark Klass case. What does that have to do with the price of tea in China? That says nothing about her helping in cases that were solved. I never made the claim that psychics will be 100% correct because it's a natural occurence that's subject to human error. It's the skeptic that talks about the supernatural but they have not shown me that the supernatural exists.
 
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Funny, I seem to notice the paragraph above. You know, where he says he doesn't believe in psychics.

So even though that has been debunked thoroughly for the sake of fun I'll grant you that every word in that "article" is true... the guy wasn't convinced enough to believe it had anything to do with psychic ability.

Thanks for proving my point.
 
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