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Proof of Life After Death!!

Gilbert Syndrome said:
Derren Brown can do exactly what John Edward can, and yet Brown doesn't claim to be psychic at all, what does that tell you?
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Er, my spirit guide tells me that Derren Brown really is psychic but wants everyone to believe he's an excellent mentalist & illusionist :p

I've even heard it claimed that the many failures of frauds like JE are pointers that they're doing it for real, whereas the polished successes of illusionists like Derren Brown show they're using trickery... :boggled:
 
Robin1 said:
So yes, I know what it's like to stand by the sidelines and watch people I care about make poor decisions that may negatively impact them - I'm doing it right now.
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Can you explain how disbelief in JE's ability to communicate with dead people, is having a negative impact?
 
abaddon said:
You couldn't tape it because you were out, and it will be shown August 13th?

Hello, Pinochio.
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It concerns two different shows. The View on the 13th and a different, currently (at that moment) airing show.
Robin1 claimed that this discussion hinged on parts of that airing episode that was not seen by all. but was not being discussed. :rolleyes:
 
Robin1 said:
Agatha, The View is a popular American morning talk show. It really doesn't matter if you can't see it 'cause as my brother said there were no stupendous JE trademark hits that we would offer here as proof of life after death. We don't even know if they are gonna air our portion. The message JE asked me to deliver is sure to ruffle some feathers here and as such I selfishly recommend nobody watch it anyway!
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I confess to being utterly confused. Earlier, this show was being touted as evidence for life after death, and OccamJr talked of there being ..."personal details about some subjects that would be impossible to explain away with tricks". Now you are saying that there are no such details.

This show is only available to 5% of the world's population, so most of us have no choice about whether we watch it or not.

As for the 'message', if JE wanted you to deliver it why have you not done so? I have no doubt that a member of his staff is aware of this thread and if the message is some personal detail about a participant, it's just a demonstration that there really is no privacy on the internet at all.

Robin1 said:
Actually, we were kidding, we never won tickets to the show...I mean really, what are the chances we would actually be 1 of 100 picked out of a whopping 20,000 entries!
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One in 200, which is not that bad as competition entries go. And given your web presence as a vocal supporter of JE, your particular odds were almost certainly better than that.

Robin1 said:
People who believed that musta been high on pina coladas! Yeah, that's it...kidding...no show for you to watch - move along now, everyone. Let's go see what flaccon's up to!
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Um, what?

Look, nobody on this thread wishes you or OccamJr any ill-will. There is no hatred towards you, only towards people like JE who lie and cheat and scam people out of their money.

We are attempting to show you the truth about this con-artist not because we want to upset you or damage your memories of your father, but because we care that you are being manipulated and exploited by someone who makes his living by lying to vulnerable people. We are trying to help you see that JE is a fraud who relies on both cold and hot reading to get his 'hits', and who relies on the gullibility of his audience and their willingness to believe.

If you don't believe us, that's fine. Life will go on just as before, more con-artists will join the throng of people who have found an easy way to part the bereaved from their money, and every single one of these so-called psychics will continue to delude the public while the True Believers defend the indefensible. We'll all live and die just the same, and our atoms will be scattered. We'll live in the memories of those who loved us and those whose lives we touched, and that is the only sort of life after death there is.

If you want to convince us differently, then you'll need to show something much more than the anecdotes we've seen thus far, all of which have mundane explanations.
 
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Robin1 said:
You seem nice. Ironically though, I feel it is you and most people on this site who are the victims. You've been brainwashed into thinking like James Randi. And when I say that, please know that I believe being skeptical is a good thing. But there is a difference between healthy skepticism and being unable to truly be open-minded. So yes, I know what it's like to stand by the sidelines and watch people I care about make poor decisions that may negatively impact them - I'm doing it right now.
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If it makes you feel any better, Randi hasn't had much of an influence on me at all. What had a far bigger impact was taking logic and critical thinking classes when I was in college many moons ago. After that I had to assess my own belief in many un-evidenced things like astrology, tarot, ghosts, and psychics, and I decided for myself that these things weren't real. The only thing that Randi did that really had an impact on me was this video, which I saw in a critical thinking class while I was in college:



It's only a minute and a half, and Randi isn't being a jerk in it, so I suggest you watch it. I also think it's important that you know that Randi never posts on the forum and doesn't interact with us directly. If we want to communicate with him, we have to contact him directly via email or meet him in person at TAM or other skeptic events. I've never been to one of these gigs, but I believe he's only got time for a photo-op and maybe to answer a short question. It would be rare for one of us to have a heart-to-heart with Randi. It's my understanding that he's a fairly personable and kind man, even though he seems rather irascible when it comes to woo practitioners. Idk for sure, though, I've never met him or talked to him. We're always free to read his work or watch his lectures online though.
 
Agatha said:
Look, nobody on this thread wishes you or OccamJr any ill-will. There is no hatred towards you, only towards people like JE who lie and cheat and scam people out of their money.

We are attempting to show you the truth about this con-artist not because we want to upset you or damage your memories of your father, but because we care that you are being manipulated and exploited by someone who makes his living by lying to vulnerable people. We are trying to help you see that JE is a fraud who relies on both cold and hot reading to get his 'hits', and who relies on the gullibility of his audience and their willingness to believe.
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AND THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THAT (falling for it)! It's not stupid, it's just human. It's a form of reassurance many of us have sought in the past. I know I have, though obviously I can't speak for everyone.
 
Another lurker here, posting to say sorry, Robin, I started off utterly unconvinced about psychics and your 'evidence' as shown in your posts here has just made me all the more certain that they're con artists, and not even particularly good con artists. I second all that people have been saying about not hating, not missing out on anything by thinking like this, but being concerned for your welfare and for all those others who have been manipulated and abused for money by conmen like John Edwards.
 
sleepy_lioness said:
Another lurker here, posting to say sorry, Robin, I started off utterly unconvinced about psychics and your 'evidence' as shown in your posts here has just made me all the more certain that they're con artists, and not even particularly good con artists. I second all that people have been saying about not hating, not missing out on anything by thinking like this, but being concerned for your welfare and for all those others who have been manipulated and abused for money by conmen like John Edwards.
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Eep. Robin has gone on a one month vacation. I guess answers will have to wait.
 
Robin1 said:
You seem nice. Ironically though, I feel it is you and most people on this site who are the victims. You've been brainwashed into thinking like James Randi. And when I say that, please know that I believe being skeptical is a good thing. But there is a difference between healthy skepticism and being unable to truly be open-minded. So yes, I know what it's like to stand by the sidelines and watch people I care about make poor decisions that may negatively impact them - I'm doing it right now.
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The first claim does not support the second. If any psychic were to consistently demonstrate extra-rational ability, under controlled situations, I, for one, would be fascinated, and would want to understand. OTH, I have enough confidence in reality not to be taken in by a deluge of guesses, followed by spin-doctoring and bolstered by careful editing.

(ETA: I apologize for the appearance of "piling on". I posted these last two before I read that Robin! had been suspended again.)
 
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For lurkers I want to summarize this thread;

Robin claimed to have proof of the afterlife which turned out to be a cold reading she got fro John Edward.

Various people made earnest attempts at explaining how John does his act but Robin ignored these folks and kept making excuses for John Edward.

At some point supposedly Robins Brother, A skeptical person, Joined this site and the thread got even stranger.

Robin & Occam claimed they won tickets to a John Edward show and that we could see it on the View, this would be the proof we had been asking for.

It's unknown if they did or did not at this time.

As a personal note I a very sorry you lost someone Robin, As you already know I have too. I am sorry that in a vulnerable state you saw John Edward and he did what he does best, make money from your tragedy. I don't want to speak for everyone, however I think it's safe to assume all here would love to find out what happens after death, No evidence for the afterlife has been presented.
 
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Nay_Sayer said:
For lurkers I want to summarize this thread;

Robin claimed to have proof of the afterlife which turned out to be a cold reading she got fro John Edward.

Various people made earnest attempts at explaining how John does his act but Robin ignored these folks and kept making excuses for John Edward.

At some point supposedly Robins Brother, A skeptical person, Joined this site and the thread got even stranger.

Robin & Occam claimed they won tickets to a John Edward show and that we could see it on the View, this would be the proof we had been asking for.

It's unknown if they did or did not at this time.

As a personal note I a very sorry you lost someone Robin, As you already know I have too. I am sorry that in a vulnerable state you saw John Edward and he did what he does best, make money from your tragedy. I don't want to speak for everyone, however I think it's safe to assume all here would love to find out what happens after death, No evidence for the afterlife has been presented.
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Good summary.

The only thing I would add is to disagree with Robin1 is, in her opinion, to engage in hate. Dunno why, I have stood up for her in the past.
 
It's times like this that I feel that Penn Jillett's words from the pilot episode of Penn & Teller's B.S. are appropriate. (Language cleaned up.)

Before we bust up this party, and god dammit we're gonna bust it up, we have to make it very clear where our hearts are. We have nothing but empathy for the people who are experiencing the loss and grief of the death of a loved one. That guy who lost his mom rips my heart out. I'm a momma's boy whose mom died a couple of years ago, and I'll never get over it, and my dad died at around the same time, and I was very close to both of them. I loved them so much there isn't a moment that goes by that I don't miss them. Houdini didn't really go nuts busting these mediums until he lost his mom. Once you've felt that pure grief, seeing it exploited can take away your sense of humor.

Once a loved one has died, all we have is our memories of them. There is nothing more precious to me than my memories of my mom and dad. We don't give a rat's [butt] about the money these bastards are taking from the grief stricken; what we do care about deeply is the desecration of memories. These "performance artists" are, in a very real sense, mother-[censored]ers. That poor guy's grieving memories of his mother are now all [messed] up by somebody else's images. All he will ever have left of his mom are memories, and this pig has pissed on those for a buck and a little un-earned fame. I'm sure these lame [censored] tell themselves that they're easing the grief, but skits for money can not replace loving memories. How low do you have to be to exploit someone's true grief to sell some bull[censored] book?

One of the weird things Houdini discovered is that some of these mediums actually slip into believing their own bull. They forget their own misses, or as John Edward, the Biggest Douche in the Universe, does, rewrite them as hits that we're just not able to recognize. Cold reading can be done accidentally. That doesn't mean the psychic is a better person. Lying to themselves does not make lying to others OK. It can make intellectually lazy scumbags more convincing and dangerous. But even if these [censored] know they're just making this [stuff] up and pushing people's buttons, they tell themselves, "At least I'm comforting the bereaved." Who are they to decide that lying about the universe and a dead loved one is what the bereaved needs!? That's condescending bull!
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Robin1 said:
You seem nice. Ironically though, I feel it is you and most people on this site who are the victims. You've been brainwashed into thinking like James Randi. And when I say that, please know that I believe being skeptical is a good thing.
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Then why do you condemn it as "thinking like James Randi"??? I mean, Sweet Jesus, you just flat contradicted yourself.

But there is a difference between healthy skepticism and being unable to truly be open-minded.
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And we're back to this again. :rolleyes:

Robin, like most here, I would love it if there was life after death, and we could communicate with passed loved ones. I just haven't seen any evidence to support it. You came here saying you had "proof". You've since acknowledged that your "proof" is not enough to be considered conclusive by reasonable rational thinkers. YOU conceded that. Now, we're all in agreement on that point, yet that makes the skeptics closed minded?

So yes, I know what it's like to stand by the sidelines and watch people I care about make poor decisions that may negatively impact them - I'm doing it right now.
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How does not believing in JE based on conclusive evidence that he is a fraud negatively impact anyone? Give us a specific example.

Yeah, I know she's gone for a month, but the question stands. I've heard this before, and I don't understand the thought process. How does not believing in psychic ability negatively impact our lives? Are these people like Robin referring to the idea that otherwordly presences cannot reach us since we don't believe, and, therefore, we are missing out on Pops telling us we just bought a new appliance? I don't see the negative impact.

Paying good money to a fraud coupled with being played emotionally-that seems like it would have a far greater chance of having a real, almost tangible, negative impact on someone's life. Even if they believe it, and maybe especially if they believe it. It's hiding from reality. It's emotionally stunting. What is to be gained from it, other than false senses of comfort, etc? Wouldn't that just make real hardship that much more difficult to face?

I'm not being caustic here. I've never been a believer in such other wordly things, and I don't get the thought process. Perhaps a former believer can explain? Is it just the sense of comfort of having something, anything to believe in? Is it the notion of superiority over closed minded skeptical thinkers? Both? Something else?
 
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desertgal said:
Then why do you condemn it as "thinking like James Randi"??? I mean, Sweet Jesus, you just flat contradicted yourself.



And we're back to this again. :rolleyes:

Robin, like most here, I would love it if there was life after death, and we could communicate with passed loved ones. I just haven't seen any evidence to support it. You came here saying you had "proof". You've since acknowledged that your "proof" is not enough to be considered conclusive by reasonable rational thinkers. YOU conceded that. Now, we're all in agreement on that point, yet makes the skeptics closed minded?



How does not believing in JE based on conclusive evidence that he is a fraud negatively impact anyone? Give us a specific example.

Yeah, I know she's gone for a month, but the question stands. I've heard this before, and I don't understand the thought process. How does not believing in psychic ability negatively impact our lives? Are these people like Robin referring to the idea that otherwordly presences cannot reach us since we don't believe, and, therefore, we are missing out on Pops telling us we just bought a new appliance? I don't see the negative impact.

Paying good money to a fraud coupled with being played emotionally-that seems like it would have a far greater chance of having a real, almost tangible, negative impact on someone's life. Even if they believe it, and maybe especially if they believe it. It's hiding from reality. It's emotionally stunting. What is to be gained from it, other than false senses of comfort, etc? Wouldn't that just make real hardship that much more difficult to face?
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The question stands. Robin1 claims the lurkers support her. Let Robin1 support that notion on her return.

For me, I prefer to go with the legacy my mother left me. Tolerance, calmness, kindness, and an unending fountain of understanding. I do my best to live up to that (not always successfully).

If the likes of JE were to take a massive **** on that, I would be up for murder. Robin1 invites that for some reason.

So which is a better thing? I stepped up and tried to live according to my mothers principles? Or JE told me I bought a fridge?
 
The month off has been converted to a ban and OccamJr was also Robin. I don't know what she thought she was doing, trying to convince us or just trolling for attention, but she won't be back this time.
 
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