Police and Psychics

[Lothian]

Are you claiming that the ACPO have published the above statement?

I accept you may be lying, but the the trouble is, credophile pseudo-skeptic types actualy believe such things without question and go on to repeat them elsewhere. Which eventualy, of course, ends up with them landing in hot water at some point or other and I am sure you wouldn't want that coming back to haunt you, right?

Coming back to haunt me ? Like your probability calculations you mean.

I can confirm that the extract is from the actual guidance. I remote viewed it. You are well aware that remote viewing is a proven technique fully accepted by the courts in millions of cases.

 

[Lucianarchy]

I can confirm that the extract is from the actual guidance.

OK, so you were lying when you tried to misalign the ACPO.

I don't know what point you were hoping to make, all you're doing is confirming the fact that pseudo-skeptics like yourself are unable to debunk and lack critical thinking skills.

 

[Lucianarchy]

Stumpy, have you been able to detect where the ACPO guidelines are yet? Nil desperandum.

But more importantly, have either yourself or Tony actually got any e.v.i.d.e.n.c.e. of deception, or are you just supposing deception has occured?

 

[Lothian]

OK, so you were lying when you tried to misalign the ACPO.

I don't know what point you were hoping to make, all you're doing is confirming the fact that pseudo-skeptics like yourself are unable to debunk and lack critical thinking skills.

You prove I am lying. It should be easy you worked for the Home Office assisting in hundreds of cases where psychic evidence was used (although I understand you have forgotten the names of any of them). I am sure you can get hold of a copy to prove me wrong.

But common sense suggests I am right.

People who hear imaginary voices in their heads are insane.
Psychics hear imaginary voices in their heads.
The should be treated the same surely.

 

[Lucianarchy]

You prove I am lying.

No need. You are a liar. Sue me, liar.

 

[Lothian]

No need. You are a liar. Sue me, liar.

I don’t need to sue you. I have nothing to prove. All my clients believe in my remote viewing abilities. The fact that they come back time and time again is all the proof I and they need.

Just because you don’t believe in remote viewing does not mean I can not do it. It would be so easy for you, with all your contacts, to prove me wrong but you will not because you can not.

 

[Lucianarchy]

I have nothing to prove.

I am happy for the ACPO to be the judge of that.

 

[Lothian]

I am happy for the ACPO to be the judge of that.

And so am I.

Let me get my remote viewing goggles on again.

It says

…..

5.7. Dealing with information provided by Psychics.

See section 5.4 -Dealing with information provided by the certifiably insane.


Well there you go I have not only proved my point but managed to successfully repeat my remote viewing experiment. Something you skeptics claim does not happen.

 

[Lucianarchy]

And so am I.

OK. No problem. I'll put you on ignore until then, just in case you are a minor (as your intelligence suggests) rather than a liar.

In the meantime, Stumpy, have you been able to detect where the ACPO guidelines are yet? Nil desperandum.

But more importantly, have either yourself or Tony actually got any e.v.i.d.e.n.c.e. of deception, or are you just supposing deception has occured?

 

[Lothian]

OK. No problem. I'll put you on ignore until then, just in case you are a minor (as your intelligence suggests) rather than a liar.

In the meantime, Stumpy, have you been able to detect where the ACPO guidelines are yet? Nil desperandum.

But more importantly, have either yourself or Tony actually got any e.v.i.d.e.n.c.e. of deception, or are you just supposing deception has occured?

On ignore. Just when I thought we were starting to get along.

 

[Jaggy Bunnet]

OK. No problem. I'll put you on ignore until then, just in case you are a minor (as your intelligence suggests) rather than a liar.

In the meantime, Stumpy, have you been able to detect where the ACPO guidelines are yet? Nil desperandum.

But more importantly, have either yourself or Tony actually got any e.v.i.d.e.n.c.e. of deception, or are you just supposing deception has occured?

Anyone guess who posted this:

"Your reposting is wasting bandwidth, and as such you are 'spamming' the forum"

I'm sure such a person would not be stupid enough to do exactly the behaviour they have condemned on the same thread.

 

[Stumpy]

Stumpy, have you been able to detect where the ACPO guidelines are yet?

Err...NO! I have been rather busy with other more pressing matters at work. Have you had any luck tracking them down via your HO contacts?

But more importantly, have either yourself or Tony actually got any evidence of deception, or are you just supposing deception has occured?

Just remind me where I have stated that deception took place? Did you actually read the thread...?
Unlike Keen I am not up for coming to any definitive conclusions about an incident that took place nearly two decades ago.

Stumpy

 

[SteveGrenard]

Hi Stumpy:

Was wondering if you knew or know or can learn more abut Detective Chief Superintendent Eric Rundle who headed the Genette Tate case. It was supposed to be the first in Britain to have official HO approval for the involvement of psychics. I believe the psychic worked with Chief Inspector Don Crabb. Perhaps Rundle or Crabb if they are still around can shed some light on the guidelines if, in fact, they weren't actually involved in their promulgation.

The psychic who worked on the Tate case which last I heard was never solved (?) was a man named Robert Cracknell who also worked on the Yorkshire Ripper cases. According to police sources he correctly pinpointed the area where Peter Sutcliffe lived, he predicted the date of the Ripper's last attack give or take a few days only. He also accurately described Sutcliffe's house.

References:

Moran, S. & Truzzi, M. (foreword) Psychics:Investigators and Spies who Use Paranormal Powers. 1999.


Wilson Colin The Psychic Detectives. Paranormal Crime Detection, Telepathy and Psychic Archeology. 1985,

 

[CFLarsen]

It was supposed to be the first in Britain to have official HO approval for the involvement of psychics.

Please provide references for this.

The psychic who worked on the Tate case which last I heard was never solved was a man named Robert Cracknell who also worked on the Yorkshir Ripper cases.

Please provide evidence that Cracknell "worked" on the YR cases. What "cases"?

According to police sources he correctly pinpointed he area where Peter Sutcliffe lived, he predicted the date if the Ripper's last attack give or tae a few days ony. He also accurately described Sutcliffe's house.

Please provide the sources that he "correctly pinpointed" the are where PS lived.

Please provide the sources that the date was predicted.

Please provide the sources that described Sutcliffe's house.

 

[Lothian]

I doubt very much that Robert Cracknell worked with the police. According to his own website. http://www.vigil-productions.com/ his involvement was with a couple of newspapers. I would have thought that if he worked with the police he would have mentioned it.

Interestingly he relates an incident

At a dinner with his publishers, to discuss the launch of his forthcoming autobiography, CLUES TO THE UNKNOWN, the renowned author Colin Wilson was also present. The discussion led to the case of the Yorkshire Ripper and the fact that, for the past eighteen months, there had no developments or further murders. Again, in his inimitable style, Cracknell declared, "He will murder again, very soon. And that will be the final one!”

There was a murder on September 2 1979
The next murder was on August 20 1980.
There was then an attack on 24 September 1980
The was next an attack on 5 November 1980
The last murder was on 17 November 1980
Sutcliffe was arrested on 2 January 2001

It follows that there was never in the period between the second to last and last murder a time where there had been no murders or developments in the previous 18 months. Cracknell’s statement that he was 100% correct is clearly wrong and must bring his other claims into question.

 

[Ersby]

Lothian's right, though I doubt his (or my) points will be addressed by grenard. Here goes anyway. His work on the Yorkshire Ripper case was not with the police, but with the newspaper The Yorkshire Post. Besides that, it is problematic to judge a psychics powers with predictions for events that have already taken place by the time the prediction is published. Here’s the only prediction by Cracknell I could find that was published (on the net, link below the quote) before the event occurred, dated Feb 5th.

We also got an incredible prediction from our first guest, Robert Cracknell, author of The Psychic Reality. He's Britain's best documented psychic, famous in that country for his incredible predictions about the Yorkshire ripper, one of the UK's worst-ever serial murderers. During a news break, he heard a report about the Gallaudet University murder case. The body of a second student, a young man from San Antonio, had just been found murdered in the same dormitory where another boy was killed on September 28.

When we came back on the air to talk with Cracknell, he said that some intuitions had just come to him about this murder. Since he lives in Cyprus, he hadn't heard anything about it before the news report last night. He said he felt that the murderer is an employee about 27 years old, who has only been working there for the last 12 to 15 months and is originally from the Balkans. He is a laundry worker who works for the laundry at the school, and he feels that the last murder has something to do with a laundry chute that is near the student's room.

Off the air, Cracknell told us that he feels the murdered boy was a homosexual and that the killer has strong homophobic tendencies. Imagine my surprise when I read the news stories today and discovered that the first murdered boy had been secretary of the Lambda Society at the school, an organization for gays and lesbians.

http://www.unknowncountry.com/diary/?id=60

then, on Feb 13th:

Washington, D.C.—Joseph Mafnas Mesa, Jr., 20, a native of Guam (born in San Fransisco), has been arrested and arraigned in connection with the murders of Eric F. Plunkett, 19, a gay student activist at Gallaudet University and Benjamin Varner of San Antonio, also 19. Both of the murdered youths were beaten to death in the dormitory they'd shared with their reputed killer. The motive, apparently, had been robbery.

So, not twenty, not from the Balkans, not working there, nothing to do with the laundry and it was robbery, not homophobia that was the motive. Interestingly, about the Cracknell’s guess about homosexuality, it seems it was aimed at the second, most recent, murder but applied to the first. What’s also interesting from a psychic point of view was that Cracknell could get “homosexual” but not “deafness” or “cerebral palsy”, both of which the first murder victim had. Is this another 100% prediciton for Cracknell?

 

[Ed]

So, not twenty, not from the Balkans, not working there, nothing to do with the laundry and it was robbery, not homophobia that was the motive. Interestingly, about the Cracknell’s guess about homosexuality, it seems it was aimed at the second, most recent, murder but applied to the first. What’s also interesting from a psychic point of view was that Cracknell could get “homosexual” but not “deafness” or “cerebral palsy”, both of which the first murder victim had. Is this another 100% prediciton for Cracknell?

I'd also be curious as to what was reported vis a vis the nature of the wounds. Stump might comment but I am under the impression that extreme violence to the body is taken as an indication of a gay relationship gone bad.

More psychic crap from people selling books.

 

[Lothian]

To say Cracknell’s claims are inconsistent is being generous.

In connection with his personal solving of the Janie Shepherd Murder, apart from getting her name wrong he claims

Janie Shepard was an Australian girl, in her early 20’s, whose murdered body was found in the back of her red Mini car in a desolate area of Hertfordshire.
Police investigations had revealed no clues or answers

Some weeks after the murder,…., two officers from the Murder Squad did indeed visit Cracknell’s home, to interview him. It was a comparatively simple matter to convince them of his true identity and profession. They then asked if, subject to official sanction, he would assist them in their enquiries. Cracknell then, in a flash of psychic intuition, told the Police officers that there was nothing further he could do as the murderer was already in prison. He described him as being black, with a scar on his cheek. He felt he was currently serving a prison sentence for rape.
The police then left and Cracknell heard nothing further from them.
It was some seven years later when a black man with a scar on his cheek was arrested at the prison gates (having served seven years for rape) and charged with the murder of Janie Shephard. He was subsequently found guilty.
Cracknell’s uncanny psychic ability in this case has yet to be explained scientifically. Yet, without leaving the confines of his home, or becoming actively involved, he solved a murder – despite nearly being arrested as a suspect.

Compare with the Hertfordshire police view [url]http://www.cathus.co.uk/hertspol/history/150yr6.html[/url]

She was reported as missing and four days later her mini car was found in Notting Hill. The inside of the car showed signs of a terrible struggle.


David Ronald Lashley, a powerful built Barbadian was a prime suspect for the murder. He had previous convictions for sex attacks, but had been sentenced for another crime before the police had the chance t build up a case against him.
The investigating officers had to wait 13 years before Lashley was released. As soon as he stepped through the prison gates, he was arrested and later stood trial at St Albans Crown Court.
The police had to trace over 100 witnesses, many of whom had not been heard of since 1977.

Notting Hill is not in Hertfordshire and certainly in not remote being in the middle of London.

The arrest 13 years after the crime suggests that it was 6 years after the murder not a few weeks that a black man with a scar was suggested by Cracknell (if he ever did suggest such a thing given his total lack of ability to get any other facts right) a time when it would have been well known that Lashley was the prime suspect.

One wonders if Cranknell is reporting the same case !!

 

[SteveGrenard]

Although I was really interested in Stumpy's information on Rundle and Crabb vis a vis the guidelines, I appreciate your research on this medium. With respect to the prediction about killing one last time I didn't notice any date given for the dinner where the medium made that remark. Wouldn't this be critical in determing the validity of that "prediction."? Also in the re-pasted quote did I miss a statement somewhere that the medium said Notting Hill was located in Herts? Or was the connection to Notting Hill and the Barbadian man as simple as the fact that this area of London is a West Indian section?

Thank you again for looking further into this medium.

 

[Lothian]

Although I was really interested in Stumpy's information on Rundle and Crabb vis a vis the guidelines, I appreciate your research on this medium. With respect to the prediction about killing one last time I didn't notice any date given for the dinner where the medium made that remark. Wouldn't this be critical in determing the validity of that "prediction."? Also in the re-pasted quote did I miss a statement somewhere that the medium said Notting Hill was located in Herts? Or was the connection to Notting Hill and the Barbadian man as simple as the fact that this area of London is a West Indian section?

Thank you again for looking further into this medium.

The date of the dinner is not relevant. The psychic said that the last killing would be 18 months after the one before. That was wrong

The medium said the car was found in Hertfordshire. It wasn't it was found in Notting Hill.


I trust Stumpy will get back to you if he has had any progress on the guidelines. You could also try Luci. She used to work for the home office you know.

P.S. I don't think this man is a medium. possibly poor to medum but no better