Plume in Flight 93 photo is different

[Mercutio]

So why didn't the variables in my pic of the 3 plumes make things different? Val's plume is nearly the same color as the middle ordnance plume which has a very contrasting background. the sky in the right pic of the jet crash is about the same as Val's pic, but the plume colors are substantially different.

What are you talking about? Of course the variables made things different! The fact that Val's plume looks the same as the middle, despite a very different background, is evidence that the composition of the two plumes is dissimilar.

More specifically, it cannot be taken as evidence that they are the same. If everything else about the pic is different, but the plume's composition is the same, the plume's color will be different. Take a look at a piece of white paper with a fluorescent bulb lighting half of it and an incandescent bulb lighting the other half. The two halves of the same piece of paper will look very different. In your pic, you have two different sources of illumination (as evidenced by the background), yet the plumes look the same. Clearly, then, they are not the same.

In the far-right pic, we have potential differences of sun angle, humidity, density of smoke, camera sensitivity, and composition of plume (we know from the debris field that there was more than just fuel in Val's plume). Until you are able to account for each of those, you cannot know which are important in determining the apparent colour.

NOTICE I brought up the different fireballs 93 could have made to PERHAPS explain why 93 made a seemingly ordnance plume color. Maybe we should address the fireball reaction first.

You brought up the different fireballs because they "looked right" to you. You did not do your homework; you did not see any reason to doubt your gut.

Maybe we should address your apology first.

 

[Skibum]

He needs to add a few more names to the ignore list:

Reason, Logic, Sanity.

 

[Dog Town]

My ignore list: Arkan_Wolfshade, Belz, defaultdotxbe, Dog Town, Huntsman, kookbreaker, LashL, Pardalis, rwguinn, Skibum, Stellafane, Sword_Of_Truth, Yoink

WoWee! I feel honor to be on this list! I am just the guy under the seats, trying to make your life a living hell! Ooo...ld Letterman, before your time JR!
Next!!!!
He is a JOOOOOO!

 

[Gravy]

All the estimates are YOUR guy's estimates that YOU guy's came up with. I'm just being a moderator.

Really? Who here estimated what the plume color should be?

Please respond.

I repeat: since you dismiss the scientific method, what methods are you going to use to prove or disprove that Val McClatchey's photo was of the aftermath of flight 93's crash?

Please describe your methodology now.

 

[Gravy]

Irrelevant. The point is, you don't know if the photo is fake, therefore you have no conclusive proof, therefore what you said about Val was a lie. Please retract and apologise. Maybe THEN we can proceed.

EDIT: My ignore list: Arkan_Wolfshade, Belz, defaultdotxbe, Dog Town, Huntsman, kookbreaker, Pardalis, rwguinn, Skibum, Stellafane, Sword_Of_Truth, Yoink

Killclown's got me on ignore. Can someone slap him upside the head with my response above ?

Done.

 

[Killtown]

Really? Who here estimated what the plume color should be?

That's what we are debating right now.

 

[Gravy]

You know, you've already been shown pictures with clouds from dark black to almost white. That shoudl be a pretty clear clue that just about any color between those extremes is possible.

Of course, expecting you to get a clue is like expecting Seabiscuit to make a comeback and win the Trifecta.

Huntsman, Killtown has you on Ignore, along with 10 others. Check his sig.

 

[Dog Town]

That leaves him /her (more like), with no one. The saint has left the building!
End this Madness!

 

[Mancman]

Killtown, there is no need for that list of names. Be economical and put the following:

My ignore list: People who refute my claims and ask questions I cannot answer.

 

[Dog Town]

[My ignore list: People who refute my claims and ask questions I cannot answer.

K Clown: Logic?

 

[Gravy]

That's what we are debating right now.

No, you said you were working from our estimates. Who here estimated what color the plume cloud should be? Who claimed anything about the color of the cloud?

Please account for the differences in the appearance of the smoke in these photos:

Well, what's your conclusion, Killtown?

 

[mortimer]

Killtown,

I suggest you head over to http://www.airdisaster.com and browse through the documented airplane crashes to find those that would seem most similar to the UA 93 crash. You could probably look at just a few variables such as airspeed, orientation, and plane type to come up with a list.

You could then look in their photo archives to see if there are any plume photos for that list.

Why are you expecting others to find the photos to support your claim?

 

[Killtown]

No, you said you were working from our estimates. Who here estimated what color the plume cloud should be? Who claimed anything about the color of the cloud?

Well, what's your conclusion, Killtown?

Is the bottom pic from a video?

 

[Killtown]

Killtown,

I suggest you head over to http://www.airdisaster.com and browse through the documented airplane crashes to find those that would seem most similar to the UA 93 crash. You could probably look at just a few variables such as airspeed, orientation, and plane type to come up with a list.

You could then look in their photo archives to see if there are any plume photos for that list.

Why are you expecting others to find the photos to support your claim?

I have, I couldn't find anything that came close. Maybe they would have better luck than I had.

 

[DavidJames]

killtown:
If you really cared about what happened, you would get out of your high chair and do some real research. You have been thoroughly humiliated here. People have provided detailed analysis of their thoughts about the plume. They put their research here for all to see. What do you provide in return? Your opinion that it doesn’t look like you think it should.

When are you going to apologize to Val for your unsupported accusations?
When are you going to provide more analysis then a 6 year old would describing the images they see in stars?

 

[mortimer]

I have, I couldn't find anything that came close. Maybe they would have better luck than I had.

So how could you possibly know what the plume of UA 93 *should* look like?

 

[Wyn]

I have, I couldn't find anything that came close. Maybe they would have better luck than I had.

How much Jet B is in a MOAB?

 

[Killtown]

So how could you possibly know what the plume of UA 93 *should* look like?

Well considering Val's plume is the first "plane crash" plume that doesn't look one...

 

[Gravy]

Is the bottom pic from a video?

You tell me, photo analysis expert!​

Well, you couldn't handle those. Please explain the differences in the smoke color between these two photos.

And these two.

​

 

[Mercutio]

Well considering Val's plume is the first "plane crash" plume that doesn't look one...

Considering that the trees on the hill block out any view of the ground around the crash site, you cannot possibly know this. Unless your version of the photo allows you to see through this barrier and note the lack of burning debris on the ground, your "doesn't look like one" is utterly worthless.