Plume in Flight 93 photo is different

Is the plume in this photo from Flight 93 crashing?

  • Yes.

    Votes: 129 90.8%

  • No.

    Votes: 13 9.2%
  • Total voters
    142
Status
Not open for further replies.
Killtown said:
Did it ever occur to you that the powers that be wanted to out Clinton with that to humiliate him, so he would "get in line"? Why do you think he's best buds with Bush Sr (Mr. Ex-CIA director) these days?
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Evidence? Or is the just another ungrounded assertion?

Pardalis said:
Killtown, how would an hollywood-style crew get to build this crater without anyone noticing it in Shanksville?
Who would have noticed it?
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The people that drove on Skyline (irrc) Rd.
 
Killtown, why did you come to these forums? And why do you visit the many other forums that don't agree with you? Did you think they would see that you are the superior intellect and bow down to worship you?
The people here used knowlege and logic to debate you and were incredibly kind and patient trying to educate you. Do you really think that you are advancing your cause here? I suspect I know the answer to these questions.
I think you not only owe Val an apology but also the people here, whose time you wasted.
 
Killtown said:
That the plume couldn't not have grown that big based on the amount of alleged fuel and the lack of explosion damage immidiately outside the crater.
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How big? I've said that the smoke cloud is less than 650 m. Maybe it's 100 m, as far as we know.

But even with my more realistic size then you guys, it PROVES it couldn't have gotten to the place that it would needed to be in the short amount of time that could have elapsed between the explosion and Val taking the photo.
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How much time could have elapsed? I have no idea, so what are you basing your information on? As far as I know, it could have been anywhere from a few seconds to ten minutes.

If you're going to claim this is your proof, you need to know these two things. But you don't, and neither do we.

Shall I contact Val and let her know that she should expect an apology soon?
 
TxLady said:
Killtown, why did you come to these forums? And why do you visit the many other forums that don't agree with you? Did you think they would see that you are the superior intellect and bow down to worship you?
The people here used knowlege and logic to debate you and were incredibly kind and patient trying to educate you. Do you really think that you are advancing your cause here? I suspect I know the answer to these questions.
I think you not only owe Val an apology but also the people here, whose time you wasted.
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Honestly I think most of us would agree that it isn't that bad having him here. Without someone with an opposing viewpoint to argue with, things get stagnant and it just turns into a giant back patting operation. Either that, or you wind up like the loosers and turn on each other.
 
mrfreeze said:
Honestly I think most of us would agree that it isn't that bad having him here. Without someone with an opposing viewpoint to argue with, things get stagnant and it just turns into a giant back patting operation..
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Also, some lurkers out there who are still on the fence about this issue might read Killtown's insane arguments and say: "Oh my god! This is what I believed in?"
 
I didn't mean to imply that any of you wasted your time. I do agree that this thread will be a good place for people who are confused or unsure.
 
Hi, everyone. Stick here, coming in from RightNation. (hi, Buckwheatjones!).

Anyway, after reading most of this entertaining thread, I am just a bit curious as to what Killtown here really believes happened that day, not only in Shanksville, but also the Pentagon and the WTC. Care to go into more detail, KT? Don't tell me to go to your blog, I like things summarized in a form that gets to the bottom without reading the whole painful encyclopedia.

I know you have tried to cast doubt on what really happened and advance your convoluted conspiracy, but put yourself and your "reputation" on the line and tell us what you believe happened. Don't hold back, now, afterall you are right, aren't you?

And since we seem to be stuck on burned grass, or lack thereof, I would just like to emphasize a point that has been made about fire. Fire can only burn with the presence of oxygen. When that fireball ignited, nearly all the oxygen in that immediate area would have been consumed instantly (the torus effect, drawing all the oxygen up and away from the ground) limiting the burn of things on the ground AHEAD OF THE IMPACT PATH, NOT BEHIND IT (which is why some things in the immediate area remained unburned, as in the A-bomb example). I suspect that some amount of fuel did splash forward which in fact started the trees on fire. Living in the NW, I can tell you how dry the tinder gets below forests and lightning strikes take thousands and thousands of acres of timber every year at this time (which we are now about 2.5 weeks before 9/11). It wouldn't take much (assuming there was tinder beneath the trees) to get those trees burning. And since we have a short-term 'oxygen vacuum' at the ignition area, we all know nature abhors [sp?] a vacuum. This would pull air in from surrounding areas including the oxygen rich air which stays somewhat trapped in forests giving the fuel needed to sustain said fire (blow on a campfire sometime, seems to help, not hurt the fire's ability to burn). I'm just stating that it makes sense (read: it is reasonable to observe) that the trees in line with the impact would engulf in flames the way it did and the grass behind the impact would remain intact, unburned.

Anyway, without being the best at putting my thoughts into words I thought I'd chime in. Nice to read all the well thought out and well reasoned responses to our paranoid friend here.

One last comment: I wonder how someone who spends so much time on a computer and evidently relating life to video games and television shows ever gets out in the real world to experience real life? It is just an observation.
 
Time to be a man and face the tough questions, Killtown. This will only take ten seconds.

No excuses. No shirking your responsibility to the victims you've deliberately harmed.

I've reduced them to two for your answering ease. Please stop running away and face these questions, which your behavior has raised.

Please answer these statements with "true" or "false."

1) Your only published criterion for Val McClatchey's guilt was if the photo had been manipulated to insert the plume.

2) You did not have access to the original image or memory card.
 
stickin_damud said:
Hi, everyone. Stick here, coming in from RightNation. (hi, Buckwheatjones!).

Anyway, after reading most of this entertaining thread, I am just a bit curious as to what Killtown here really believes happened that day, not only in Shanksville, but also the Pentagon and the WTC. Care to go into more detail, KT? Don't tell me to go to your blog, I like things summarized in a form that gets to the bottom without reading the whole painful encyclopedia.

I know you have tried to cast doubt on what really happened and advance your convoluted conspiracy, but put yourself and your "reputation" on the line and tell us what you believe happened. Don't hold back, now, afterall you are right, aren't you?

And since we seem to be stuck on burned grass, or lack thereof, I would just like to emphasize a point that has been made about fire. Fire can only burn with the presence of oxygen. When that fireball ignited, nearly all the oxygen in that immediate area would have been consumed instantly (the torus effect, drawing all the oxygen up and away from the ground) limiting the burn of things on the ground AHEAD OF THE IMPACT PATH, NOT BEHIND IT (which is why some things in the immediate area remained unburned, as in the A-bomb example). I suspect that some amount of fuel did splash forward which in fact started the trees on fire. Living in the NW, I can tell you how dry the tinder gets below forests and lightning strikes take thousands and thousands of acres of timber every year at this time (which we are now about 2.5 weeks before 9/11). It wouldn't take much (assuming there was tinder beneath the trees) to get those trees burning. And since we have a short-term 'oxygen vacuum' at the ignition area, we all know nature abhors [sp?] a vacuum. This would pull air in from surrounding areas including the oxygen rich air which stays somewhat trapped in forests giving the fuel needed to sustain said fire (blow on a campfire sometime, seems to help, not hurt the fire's ability to burn). I'm just stating that it makes sense (read: it is reasonable to observe) that the trees in line with the impact would engulf in flames the way it did and the grass behind the impact would remain intact, unburned.

Anyway, without being the best at putting my thoughts into words I thought I'd chime in. Nice to read all the well thought out and well reasoned responses to our paranoid friend here.

One last comment: I wonder how someone who spends so much time on a computer and evidently relating life to video games and television shows ever gets out in the real world to experience real life? It is just an observation.
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Welcome to the forums Stick and, may I add, a most excellent first post.
 
Killtown said:
Did it ever occur to you that the powers that be wanted to out Clinton with that to humiliate him, so he would "get in line"? Why do you think he's best buds with Bush Sr (Mr. Ex-CIA director) these days?
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Why would it be impossible to be friends with someone who has different political views? Many of my friends don't come anywhere near my odd little political spectrum. They include delusional types who think that Stephen Harper is a real Canadian and Brian Mulroney was a great Prime Minister. Also a couple who are still Bush fans. I have even made friends with Montreal Canadiens' fans, who come close to the anti-christ in some ways. I have argued 9/11 with many people who I would happily share a beer with (well, I don't drink, make that a joint). They enjoyed a discussion but don't live and die on some narrow view of politics.
Finally, if the "powers that be" are so powerful why are Bush and the Republicans falling so dramatically on the American political scene? Why is a Democratic (right-wingers in any other nation) victory in the coming elections becoming more plausible on a daily basis? Why are the members of the current presidential administration not being mentioned as potential presidential candidates (beyond Rice, whose stock has plummeted since her early mention) in 2008? If the Bush administration becomes as much of an anchor around the neck of Republicans for years to come as it appears it might, don't the "powers that be" become rather ineffectual?


Sorry for the small political rant in a science thread.
 
Killtown... (sigh)

Killtown said:
1) Oh, so now the fireball was colder? Nice change after I showed you guys the absurdity that there was a fireball coming out of the crater.

2) Even a small fireball would have singed the grass growing along the crater's edge.

3) LoL! What a joke. So the 5,500 gallons bounced off the ground, aerozolized, ignited, and didn't burn the grass!!! :boggled:
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So, after nearly fifty pages of going on and on about your "plume calculation" -- and not even delivering an argument, let alone a calculation -- you shift gears to some weird theory about dry grass.

Wouldn't you like to know, before posting and erasing any doubt, whether you know what the heck you're talking about? I mean, we've already learned that you can't even add two measurements properly, shouldn't you be a bit more careful?

Since it seems only shiny objects and pictures get your attention, here's a picture for you:


(Note to moderators: Picture appears courtesy of NASA for educational purposes only. Picture is posted in accordance with NASA Copyright Guidelines.)

The tile being held is heated to 1260 oC, or 2300 oF, yet the engineer's hands do not instantly burst into flames, blister, or even become uncomfortable.

In your world view, this is impossible! So How Can This Be?? :eek: Can you figure it out?

If you're ever going to learn anything, Killtown, you're first going to have to abandon the notion that you know more than everybody else in the world. In the fields of physics and mathematics, you are perhaps the least educated person on this entire forum. Don't keep making the same mistakes. Ask for help, and listen for a change.
 
Hey the StickMan's in here! Hi Stick, how's it going. You may have noticed that killtown's not gotten any smarter since he ran away from RightNation after he got spanked.

Great first post. Welcome to the land of the frustrated thinkers and one obstinant Bimbo.
 
TxLady said:
Killtown, why did you come to these forums? And why do you visit the many other forums that don't agree with you? Did you think they would see that you are the superior intellect and bow down to worship you?
The people here used knowlege and logic to debate you and were incredibly kind and patient trying to educate you. Do you really think that you are advancing your cause here? I suspect I know the answer to these questions.
I think you not only owe Val an apology but also the people here, whose time you wasted.
Click to expand...

Killtown has come on here to change minds, but failed. Look at the scoreboard. He's lost big. That was his whole point....to present a crackpot theory and win people over. Not to educate. Not to present an idea and see if it flies, but to present his theory and then try to convince a bunch of critical thinkers it was valid.

But he failed. No one is buying this load that he's been carrying around in his shorts for two weeks because smart people know what poo smells like and no amount of weak-minded argument can convince us that it's a rose.

Whether killtown still believes in the magic of his FantasyWorld is of no consequence because his purpose on here has dismally, miserably failed.

And we're all laughing at him.
 
BWJ, thanks for the pleasantries. I am glad you have come back and are active again. You are one of the posters I try and keep up with over there. Don't know how much time I will spend here, but I can tell this is a place where anyone can learn...well, almost anyone.

I happen to be an Industrial Engineer of 18 years, if anyone is interested. I am no astrophysicist, but we IE have pretty open minds, question much and offer solutions or possibilities when given the chance.

Folks like KT are most intriguing. What is concerning is that there are probably many more like him out there. We have lots of work to do here, don't we?

Bimbo!?!!?! Haven't had the pleasure, yet... to whom are you referring?
 
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